Here We Go Again

February 3, 2015

I recently started dating again. I’ve been pouring myself into work for the last year. So I needed a break and I was longing for female companionship again. The woman I started dating is the kind of woman that walks into a room and every guy literally turns around. So how could I resist asking her out?

I did have some apprehensions though. As beautiful as she is, something about her triggers my “femme fatale” alarm. Maybe because something feels too familiar. Our exchanges are way too comfortable. For normal people, that’s a good thing. But for someone like me, that means I am treading down the same path.

Sure enough, an hour into our conversation, she tells me about her abusive relationships, a pattern that began when she witnessed her father abuse her mother. Here we go again.

She says she has been in therapy, but I can tell the damage has been done. And anybody who has read this blog knows how it ALWAYS ends. I am beginning to think that I am doomed to meet the same woman over and over again.

Like so many of my exes, she ran away to the big city to escape a past she will never escape. She has traveled to the farthest reaches of the world, hoping to find herself. She is smart, sensitive and loves to cuddle. She is likable in so many ways.

But the loose thread is there. I can see it so clearly, because I have learned how to look for it. And I know that all I have to do is pull it and everything will fall apart.

I will be surprised if this lasts. I’m already picking up on the fear of intimacy. I can tell her head is spinning. She has that runaway instinct that I am so familiar with. She does that thing where she acts distant after we exchange tender affection. The push-pull has already begun.

30 Responses to “Here We Go Again”

  1. naples104 said

    SD, run in the other direction. She may be beautiful and I predict that she will go right to sex and it will be unreal. That’s when you know it isn’t real. Find a normal woman that does not play the abuse card. You want a mentally healthy woman that wants to take her time to get to know you. Beauty is nice but normal and well adjusted is such a better partnership because they have inner beauty that is so much more attractive as you run the marathon of relationships.

    Tom

    • savorydish said

      Thanks, Tom. I need to hear that even though I know it. It’s just so frustrating to see the same patterns over and over again. I am officially a magnet for these kinds of women. And that means I need to continue working on me.

  2. Robert "toerrishuman" said

    Awesome post!! You just describe my week last week, I too met a beautiful woman who is sexy, smart, etc., we clicked so well, during our first date, she told me about her being sexually abused, ex husbands, ex boyfriend that cheated on her. To be honest it was quite a lot of information on the first date, however I did not judge her.

    During the week we met again, talked on the phone for hours, texted each other every moment we had, it was beautiful. Now fast forward to our 3rd date, I met her at the door with a kiss and some flowers. Her reply to the flowers made my jaw drop.

    “Thank you for the flowers, however I can buy my own and don’t need someone to give them to me.”

    We then went for dinner, came back to her place, opened a bottle of wine, she then starts talking about how she is happy that she makes enough money to provide for her townhouse and dog. I try to kiss her and she moves her lips to my cheek then hugs me. The finally straw was when she then said, “I want you to leave.” You don’t have to hit me on the side of the head to make me realize that this person has done a 180 degree on me.

    I was hurt, well my ego was hurt, however I am grateful she showed her true colors to me so early. I went from chatting, texting, making out with her to, leave me alone.

    I am not here to fix anyone and for the first time in my life I feel great being me. I love flowers, I loved buying flowers, I just happen to buy flowers to a woman that did not care for them or me anymore.

    We have all had hurt in the past, however that is in the past, if someone has past issues with relationships, then they should not date. I am not sure what this woman’s issues are, however I am not here to save her.

    Thanks for letting me share. Keep the faith, I do know one day I will find and meet a woman that appreciates me for me and will not mind flowers or random acts of affection!

    Robert

    PS. Your intuition is correct my friend, listen to it!

    • savorydish said

      Women like this are so use to being bruised and battered, that they associate that with intimacy. So when someone treats them well, they instantly have flashbacks of being bruised and battered. Their self-defense mechanism is always on red alert. The nicer you are, the more they freak out. It makes no sense. To a healthy person, this seems absurd. But that’s how you know your instincts are healthy.

    • savorydish said

      You want so badly to provide her with a non-judgmental environment but you know doing so would mean your own downfall. Because judging her is the only way you can protect yourself.

      • Robert "toerrishuman" said

        I agree with you my friend, it’s kind of sad that flowers would trigger something bad in one’s past, however I am not a mind reader, I am me, and I am no longer co-dependent which means I am not here to fix anyone, anymore!

        I made a video in regards to what happen to me and how I dealt with it. I will post the link, I hope you let me share it.

        Robert

      • savorydish said

        It’s sad but true. Triggers are a big part of what makes these women tick. They are completely ignorant of the fact that they are traumatized. So they create bogus explanations for why they act irrationally. Usually that explanation involves blaming you. It’s easier to believe there is something wrong with you than the other way around.

      • naples104 said

        I want to believe that I am no longer co-dependent but I find my self being paranoid over my perceptions of a situation when it involves romance. I talk myself off the window ledge by asking my self what is the potential outcome of my behavior and it is going to yield the desired result, the answer is generally no and I get calm. I am not done saving and I never will be but I try to put my needs in the center of everyone’s so I have balance. I dated a very attractive BPD after my divorce and we all know how that works out. I have been with a successful business woman for 2 years that does not need to be saved and we quickly were attracted to one another. This was after a year of regression analysis therapy that uncovered my codependence. I have come a long way and the beginning of this relationship got hard because I was paranoid about her independence and before therapy I would not have been attracted to her, not because she is not attractive, she is very attractive, but she did not need to be saved. We took our time getting to know one another by dating frequently and enjoying one another’s company. The physical part of our relationship took a while because neither of us pushed it and that was so much better than rushing to the sheets. We fight occasionally and in the past it was frequent and some of them have been bad with my insecurities causing me to get out of control. We took a break for a while and realized that we have something special for one another and now have far fewer conflicts.

        I think love and attraction are very different. Love is a continuum that gets better each day and attraction is seeing the surface, getting excited, almost a rush and often times what seems fulfilling is really an insecure need we have such as the need to save and fix. I believe that you have to be physically attracted to the person that you are involved in and sex is very important in a healthy relationship. Hence, I don’t want to say that a 7, or a 10 in terms of physical ratings for the sex opposite of yours is a criteria for acceptance or rejection. I have met very well adjusted, humble, beautiful women and I have met the same in women that have not been as blessed with beauty. I would suggest if you want a committed relationship evaluate the quality of the person, do they bring out the best in you and do they support you when you are not at your best? Listen to the Billy Joel song, “Way about Her”. If that is how you feel about the person you are with or thinking of being with, you are lucky and work hard at that relationship. If not, keep looking he or she is out there.

        I dated about 100 women before I met the women that I am with. they were mostly coffee dates or a drink that went no where. I listened carefully to their story and if they seemed like they were victims either real or perceived (on their part), I moved on. It was tedious and it was like having a full time job after I worked all day, but I wanted a relationship and I was very selective about second dates. If you want casual and want sex, (I found a fair amount of that too, but I do believe that you do not have a future with those people that are interested in casual), then you do not have to be that selective. The challenge is do not fall in love with the casual date and if they fall in love with you dive deeply into their past and if they are victims you have no future other then emotional pain. I hope this helps.

        Tom

      • savorydish said

        Well said, Tom. Dating is hard work. You come into contact with so many emotionally unavailable women, that it’s easy to jump into a relationship with a woman who merely expresses the desire to be intimate. I’ve actually had women use me for sex, never to return my calls.

        No need to dive into a troubled woman’s past. They usually divulge that information within the first couple of dates.

        I don’t look for troubled woman to save. I look for emotionally available women who turn out to be emotionally unstable. I try to make it work. Not because I want to save them, but because I’m trying to do the best with what I have. I would love to be free of this burden, but it’s not like I actually have a choice.

      • savorydish said

        Crazy women are everywhere. The most important lesson that I’ve learned is to surround yourself with good friends. I’ve had to say goodbye to alcoholics and fair-weather friends, goodbye to narcissists and passive-aggressive victim-types. It sucks but you need that bedrock of good people who will support you when you fall as much as I do.

      • Robert "toerrishuman" said

        Tom, thank for sharing! I get it!!! SD, I am so glad to hear you are dating again! It has been almost 2 years since I woke to my BPD relationship and all those hours of me working on myself is finally paying off.

        I too am picky whom I want to be with and I will not give up because sooner or later it will happen I will meet someone where it works, however to be honest I have had my fair share of dysfunctional women along that way, until this most recent one.

        One positive note in all this is that my recovery and process rate of when the S@#$ hits the fan, is amazingly short. As I mentioned on one of my videos it took me 24 hours to snap out of it and regain my self-worth again.

        Your analogy of keep one foot out door is so true Tom, I wish we didn’t have to do that, however if we don’t then it’s too easy to lose one self in a crazy relationship again.

        I have faith that I will attract the woman of my new dreams and until then, I will go on coffee dates, chat on the internet, text, etc., sooner or later it will happen, however I am in no rush and I can live with this!!!

        From gratitude,

        Robert.

      • savorydish said

        Yep, recovery times for me has vastly improved. Years ago, I’d be an emotional mess. These days, I’m able to roll out of the speeding van and land on my feet. I can definitely say I am more emotionally stable. Unfortunately, that means having to keep my distance at times.

        Crazy women are still in my life. But if it’s any consolation, they are less crazy than before. Going from BPD issues to ACOA issues may not seem like an improvement, but sometimes you have to acknowledge baby steps.

      • naples104 said

        I know Marie may have an issue with what I am about to say but it is true for me. We men think all women are crazy to a certain extent and they think we are all nuts. Both assumptions are true and I think we need to find the crazy we can live with and that can live with us. Mental Illness is entirely differently. I too met some women that were way out on the edge when I was dating, one actually starting crying on our first date 30 minutes after sitting down at the cheesecake factory, that was a fun date. I know I can have that effect on women but it generally takes more than 30 minutes for it to happen. I was actually thinking of writing a book about the strange experiences that I had from meeting women on Match. What was interesting and comforting was some of the mentally healthy women I met that were not a fit for me also had some very strange experiences with less then mentally healthy men they had met on dates. So crazy swings both ways and going through the tedium of dating is not easy. The woman I am seeing now was to be my last date from Match. I decided that online was not working and I was done, she happened to be a keeper for me and me for her, but this relationship is not without it’s challenges. After I went through a year of therapy I decided to interview women on the phone about their marriage, their childhood and their dating experiences. If it did not go well and I was concerned, I moved on and did not waste time. Maybe some day we should all meet or talk and exchange stories, I bet we have a book that would be a best seller.

        Tom

      • savorydish said

        The idea of a book has crossed my mind as well. For now, this is my group therapy. And I am content with the small audience I have.

        I don’t think all woman are crazy. However, I do think people are apt to say, “oh well, we all have issues.” Ok. That’s fair. But if someone was sexually abused as a child or had an alcoholic father, it is safe to say those are serious issues.

        I am willing to admit I have my issues. But when I compare them to the issues of the women I’m dating, they seem like peanuts. The fact that these issues go unnoticed and untreated makes them worse.

        Society needs to be aware that this problem exists. Men need to know these women exist. We can argue about how we deal with this problem. But at least we are having a rational conversation about it.

      • Yeah , like I’ve said before I have gotten to the point where I like to listen , so I can take in things properly , and just now I heard something cut and dry , and simply is “at least you know ” All I wish from my experience is that I wish I had known then what I know now , really . In knowing , how much would that have changed , well I being a man would have gotten with her , but I never would have fallen for the o-Kee-Doak , really period.

      • savorydish said

        Knowing is so crucial. It’s the difference between being blindsided and being prepared for the fall. As Tom said, sometimes you engage a woman who you know has issues, but you accept her for her issues because you know you have your own issues. But because you know, you prepare yourself for the worst-case scenario. Because try as you might to make things work, if the woman in question doesn’t have what it takes to make things work, you have to be ready to jump ship.

      • savorydish said

        I use the term “crazy” loosely. I’m sure everyone here knows that I take “artistic” liberties.

        As you probably know, BPD is classified as a personality disorder as opposed to mental illness. But sometimes “crazy” is the best word to describe the erratic behavior and the two-faced personality. It is hard to find a catchall phrase that describes all the women who have made my life so difficult.

        I do know that these stories we tell are not typical of most relationships. I think a lot of guys think women (in general) are crazy. But until they have dated women (that I’ve known) they will never know what true crazy is like.

      • Robert "toerrishuman" said

        “A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.”
        Lao Tzu

        Let’s hear it for baby steps SD!!!! It’s all good!!!

        Robert.

      • savorydish said

        That’s all we can do. We can’t expect miracles. We can only celebrate a victory of inches.

  3. jhan1969 said

    “The woman I started dating is the kind of woman that walks into a room and every guy literally turns around.”

    Yeah, I avoid those women now. The crazy quotient among hot women is just way to high. Plus, although I’m a good looking guy, I’m not getting any younger, and I ‘aint the catch I used to be looks-wise 😉

    I try to date hard 7’s now. Maybe high 6’s.

    Think this is a cruel or ‘objectifying’ way of looking at women? NOPE. The probability is WAY higher that a hard 7 or a high 6 will have a nice personality and be easy to get along with. Hot women can be crazy . . . BECAUSE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

    People will generally do what they can get away with.That’s a rule of human nature. I’d much rather be in a relationship with a person who’s ‘s__t I can get away with’ list is reasonable.

    It’s called the PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE.

    That’s been my ‘rule’ for a while now, and it’s working pretty good. And I could give a damn what anyone else thinks about it. ESPECIALLY men who are stuck in wuss-mode and ‘You shouldn’t look at women that way’ and all that BS. I’m a fair guy. I just want less trouble in my life when I can avoid it.

    Get smart. Avoid the hotties. Most of them are f__ing nuts. And don’t pay attention to that one woman who says she’s hot but ‘sane’ or has a friend who’s hot but sane. BULLSHIT. They’re nuts too.

    • savorydish said

      I’m sure there’s just as many unattractive crazies. But yes, being hot and crazy allows you get away with murder.

    • savorydish said

      But it’s more than just looks. These women have other qualities that make it hard to walk away. They’re charming and loving too.

      • jhan1969 said

        I think we get too caught up about being ‘fair’ in our culture now. Like we HAVE to say things like ‘well, there are unattractive crazy women too,’ etc, in order to seem ‘non-judgmental’ or non-offensive or whatever. I think one of the best things a man can do is FORGET THE WHOLE FAIRNESS and PC whatever thing and LOOK OUT FOR HIMSELF.

        We’re all good guys (or most of us are). We’re not out to hurt anyone. We’re not out to divide the world into camps. We’re reasonable people. WE DON’T NEED THE QUALIFIERS ANYMORE. We don’t need PERMISSION to state our beliefs. And every time we throw a qualifier in there like ‘I know not ALL attractive women are crazy,’ it’s like we ARE asking permission.

        ANY reasonable person knows that not ALL _____ people are ANYTHING. We’re speaking in REASONABLE GENERALIZATIONS. Anyone who’s not smart enough to know this doesn’t belong in adult conversations.

        And guess what:

        The people that come to discussions like this screaming about ‘generalizing’ and ‘labelling’ and so forth KNOW IT TOO. They’re not coming here to help; they’re coming to DERAIL THE CONVERSATION and try to shut you up.

        They’re trying to make you feel bad so that you surrender and give up. They’re trying to make you feel like a sexist, a bigot, a meanie, a whatever. It’s a . . .

        . . . SHAMING TACTIC.

        And it’s EXACTLY the tactic that any one of the crazy hotties I’ve been with would use on me. It’s especially a BORDERLINE TACTIC.

        The borderline acts insane, you call her out on it, and she accuses you of being JUDGMENTAL or whatever. You shut up, she goes on with her crazy behavior.

        Her goal was to shut you up so she could continue acting crazy. It probably wasn’t her CONSCIOUS GOAL; it’s just how she operates.

        Which brings me to the original subject: CRAZY HOTTIES.

        In my experience, a crazy hottie will use the above shaming tactic much effectively than an unattractive crazy woman. WHY? Because, IN GENERAL, most men are more emotionally affected when they see an attractive woman crying than when they see an unattractive woman crying. Especially when they have rip-roaring sex with the attractive woman.

        And the sex?? CRAZY IN THE HEAD, CRAZY IN BED.

        After about 3 months with an ex borderline gf, I got the distinct feeling that she used sex to self-medicate. (Probably because she actually USED the word ‘medicated’ to describe how she felt during sex.) I brought this up with her, and she FLIPPED. She started crying about how she was always ‘judged’ and how she thought I was ‘different,’ blah blah blah, the whole spiel.

        I bought it, of course. I went against my intelligent instinct that she was a CRAZY WOMAN WHO USED SEX TO SELF-MEDICATE. My self-preservation mode . . .

        . . . which she circumvented via SHAMING.

        As for charm . . . we all know how charming borderlines can be. They use their sexuality to lure people in. They use THE TOOLS AT THEIR DISPOSAL. They get under your skin and latch on like parasites.

        Much easier for a hot woman to do this than an unattractive one. That’s why, IMO, unattractive crazies are irrelevant. If anything, they’re easier targets for MALE sociopaths. Think about all those true crime shows where itinerant con-men went around the country fleecing Mary Jane Whoever. NEVER a hot woman on those victim-lists.

      • savorydish said

        You misunderstand me. When I said there are unattractive crazies as well, that was not an attempt to be PC. That is stating a fact. The proportion of unattractive crazies to beautiful crazies is the same proportion in the theoretical world of “normal” people.

        I know this because I’ve tried dating women who were less than my ideal and it was no better. They were just as insecure if not more. They had just as many daddy issues and just as many triggers.

        No, my friend, there is no safe zone out there. I’m not being PC, I’m being realistic. This is the sad state of affairs out there. We live in a society that enables crazies. We live in a society that does not want to acknowledge the presence of trauma.

        Not to go off on a tangent, but look at the growing number of school shootings. Look at the number of histrionics filling the posts on Facebook. Look at the number of extremists groups terrorizing the world. This has nothing to do with looks. It’s much deeper than that.

  4. MovingForward85 said

    If you have noticed this already then you should not be involved with her, simple as that. It is very tough nowadays to come across a good healthy minded lady, talking from my own experience. Its not even the places i frequent Which i thought my be the reason drawing these types of women towards me. I honestly just feel healthy minded ladies are few and far between.

    Ive been single now for about 14 months. Im very very cacautious as to who i surround myself with and i see red flags far too much for my liking without being judgemental.

    • savorydish said

      You’re 100% right, MF. But I am a flawed man who occasionally requires the company of a beautiful woman. Unfortunately, the only ones who are making themselves available (at this time) are the emotionally troubled.

      So what am I to do? Live the life of an isolated hermit? Deny myself certain pleasures?

      As you said, I see the signs. So I have a choice. I can walk away. Or I can take it for what it is. Tread carefully knowing full well what I’m stepping into. Taking care to protect my emotions.

      I did that with my last relationship. As long as she was expressing signs of outrageous and unreasonable behavior, I would always keep my distance.

      Eventually these relationships crash and burn. But as long as you are prepared, you can stop, drop and roll with the punches. My recovery time for this last relationship was significantly improved compared to the one before.

      Admittedly, it’s a sad state to be in. But as you noted, my choices are limited. So I am doing the best with what I have.

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