The Audacity of Thanksgiving Dinner

November 27, 2014

Putting the blog behind me was my way of moving forward, but sadly I have not escaped my problems. Troubled people continue to disrupt my life. I didn’t really have a need to post for a while… until today.

It was suppose to be a Happy Thanksgiving, but things took an unpleasant turn. My sister was coming into town. And in the spirit of the holiday season, I invited my ex to join us. She really liked my sister and my family, so I thought she might enjoy it.

Although we are no longer together, we had been exchanging pleasant texts for the last couple of weeks and she mentioned she was not flying home for the holidays.

So I invited her because I didn’t want her to be alone for the holidays. Although, I did so with some hesitation… and for good reason. I never know how she’s going to react.

Boy, was that a mistake. It was an act of kindness that was not well-received.
Apparently, I’m an asshole for inviting her to share Thanksgiving dinner with us.

To say she did not react well is an understatement. She lashed out at me with all she had. The pleasant texts were forgotten and she split me black once again, as she had done periodically in our relationship.

A week ago, we were reminiscing about a restaurant we had gone to but now was permanently closed. Fast forward a week later, and she claims she wants nothing to do with me.

Although she has said that before. I can’t even count the number of times she told me never to contact her again. And then a week later, she is in my bed again.

All she had to do was say “no thank you”, and I would have been perfectly fine with it. But she used it as an opportunity to blame me for everything that went wrong in the relationship. It is not in her character to say she missed me so. It hurts her pride.

Saying how I ruined everything was her way of telling me she missed me. She was too proud to say how much she loved me, so instead she told me how much I hurt her and treated her like shit.

Which couldn’t be further from the truth. Because if it were true she wouldn’t have come back to me over and over again for two years. Her friends wouldn’t have told her that they’ve never seen her happier.

But the stories change when troubled women slip into devaluation mode… when they are desperately trying to emotionally detach themselves. Suddenly, the friends that said they’ve never seen her happier, now say they can’t stand me. This is according to my jaded ex.

Whenever she splits me black, she forgets all the nice things I do for her. She forgets why she keeps coming back to me. She conveniently forgets many things… when it’s convenient for her.

Once again, she accused me of sleeping with my neighbor. Not because it was true, but because she was always threatened by her. And once she gets something in her mind, it is impossible to change it. She is obsessed with cheating because her last ex and her father were both cheaters. So therefore, I must be a cheater.

The funny thing is she claims she is still good friends with her ex and things have never been better with her father- the abusive drunk father she claimed threw her out of the house because he didn’t like the guy she was dating.

So if her life has always been filled with abusive men, then why am I the only one she shuts out on a regular basis? She claims the difference is she loves me. And yet she will deny that she is afraid of intimacy.

If I suggest that she has serious issues or remind her of her traumatic past, she accuses me of being abusive. The past is too painful for her. So when I remind her of it, she attributes the pain to me. Because it’s easier to blame me than her family.

Oh, this is the best part- she later accuses me of harassment and threatens to file a complaint because the fight she started has now become too much for her to handle.

But this was always the pattern- She would start a fight (aka baiting). But when I respond to HER hostility, she would accuse me of being abusive. When I accuse her of acting crazy, she accuses me of being crazy.

Doesn’t everybody react to being invited to Thanksgiving dinner with hostility and vindictive rage?

This is the sick game she plays and I am a sucker for thinking she will change. She and her therapist claim she doesn’t have BPD. But yet she takes all her games out of the BPD playbook.

She even let it slip out that she was sleeping with another man. This was payback for all the imaginary women she thought I was sleeping with.
No, that’s not a borderline personality at all.

Denial is strong with women who had alcoholic fathers. At least, the ones I’ve known. They grew up with it. So do not expect them to accept criticism lightly. Trust me, they will remember. They will pull out a laundry list of grievances and read it to you as they push you out of the plane.

Troubled women play the push and pull game until the day they find an easy replacement. They just need someone to keep them warm on those cold lonely nights. Any body will do.

It is always important for these woman to feel like they are rejecting you and not the other way around. So they will sneak back into your life after you break up with them, just so they can say they broke up with you. Troubled women are that petty.

47 Responses to “The Audacity of Thanksgiving Dinner”

  1. MovingForward85 said

    Hi Savory.
    ive posted on your previous blogs and have also been through some painful events with my Ex Bpd Gf. We have been apart for just over a year now with absolutely no contact because ive been “split black”. I can tell you that im moving on nicely. Yes i get the odd dream or thought every now and then but im definitely moving in the right direction, which is away from her.

    Ive done hundreds of hours of personal research into BPD and read so many stories from people that have dated or married BPD sufferers.

    98% of people that have moved on positively in their lives have all said you HAVE TO cut all contact and move on. Im lucky in that regard because my ex split me black so she basically cut contact for me and it has definitely helped me.

    I have read nearly all your posts and have always supported you and i have definitely learned a lot from you but i feel i need to bring a few things to your attention.

    Why are you in contact? Why did you invite her to Thanks Giving? To me it seems though you are battling to let go and move on. With what you wrote here and how you explained your reasons, it just does not add up. If you want to be emotionally and mentally healthy then you unfortunately can not and should not be interactive with her AT ALL. Saying you didnt want her to be alone on Thanks Giving is not sufficient reason in my books.

    Please understand, im not trying to be judgemental and i am seriously only trying to help a fellow human being that has been through what i have but from where im sitting i can honestly say that you are having a tough time of letting go and you are playing “Russian Roulette” but only to now blame her for her BPD side effects.

    I can honestly say that i can now help others because ive been through it all and i am 98% healed from those dark times and with the pain i experienced after being thrown out like dirty laundry. I can say il never be fully healed. That 2% will always be lost and im sure certain people that have gone through the suffering can acknowledge that.

    You need to completely cut her out of your like mate. Its as if you are addicted to the pain she causes you but then you blame her for it. If you want a healthy positive emotional future then you just have to let her go and move on.

  2. jhan1969 said

    Fuck your ex. Let her rot. Worry about yourself.

  3. naples104 said

    Hi Savory, its good to heart from you, I wish with more positive news. We all know these people, they blame everyone for their issues and hold out reconciliation as carrot so the dumb horse will keep walking for the. I too had a shitty holiday, although I am not involved with a BPD, she is a drama queen. We have been together for 2 years and fight a lot mostly about kids, we both have them. All relationships are hard and impossible if you are dealing with Cluster B issues. Savory, you have to leave that women behind and never speak with her again. She is toxic, I have to decide if I want to be in a relationship and do I want the hassles that accompany them. I think men an women were made to be friends and lovers not live together. Aside from mental illness how many people reading this can say they are happily married or have been? I bet not many.

    Tom

  4. Robert said

    Sorry Savory! You’re not stupid for inviting your ex. You’re a human being with empathy and compassion. We know they’re sick and we still seem to find the empathy and consideration to do something that may soothe their unhappiness even though we know deep down inside it may backfire. Here is a quote from Mother Teresa I read now and then even though I am not religious. I keep reading it because the quote has an awful lot to say, so here it is:
    “People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway. If you are successful you will win some false friends and true enemies. Succeed anyway. If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you. Be honest and frank anyway. What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight. Build anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous. Be happy anyway. The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow. Do good anyway. Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough. Give the world the best you’ve got anyway .You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway”. I wish you the best Savory!

    Bob

    • jhan1969 said

      Not for nothing, Robert, but what do quotes from Mother Theresa have to do with anything? As far as ’empathy and compassion’; those qualities are WASTED on people like Savory’s ex. With people like her, THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.

      Some sayings stick around for a reason 😉

      My advice to people involved with emotional vampires is to quit being a f__ing doormat and get away from them. Excise them from their lives. Move on to people who are capable of empathy and compassion themselves.

      Re-channel that urge to ‘re-connect.’ Do some volunteer work. Get deeper into your hobbies and avocations. Bone up at work. See a concert. Visit family. Hit the gym. Learn how to play an instrument,

      Do something with the emotional energy that would be wasted on the unworthy.

      And BTW – you CAN forgive someone and disconnect from them FOREVER.

      Jesus H. Christ in a handbasket . . . people need more than lofty, meaningless BS. They need a PLAN OF ACTION. Not self-helpy nonsense.

      • Robert said

        The quote has a lot to do with the situation! If you allow yourself to become like them, then you lose, and they win. Your man up job is to stay away from the mentally demented woman, but not to diminish the good within you. As far as I’m concerned, I’m an atheist, but will not be willing to become like my mentally demented ex! If you do, you may ruin a relationship with a person that deserves your total consideration and empathy. Remember, you invited her, so you have no one but yourself to be upset with; not her. You have the knowledge, so utilize that knowledge!

      • jhan1969 said

        I’ll say it again: THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.

        I’ll also quote this:

        “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

        (Mathew 7:6)

        Don’t have to be religious to understand this. The ‘Holy’ is my PERSONAL SOVEREIGNTY. The ‘Pearls’ are what I have to offer to other people in terms of wisdom, experience, and goodness. The ‘swine’ are those who, for WHATEVER REASON, would trample on those things – and my personal sovereignty in the process.

        Instead of quoting Mother Theresa, (who was actually not that good of a person), you might as well go to the Source. Don;t have to be religious to get some use out of the Good Book.

    • savorydish said

      Thanks, Bob. I’m not religious either, but I appreciate the quote and the kind words.

  5. Gary said

    I feel your pain, and no doubt writing helps you make sense of it all – however you should perhaps take the advice of moving forward below who like me is fully recovered – a wonderful feeling to be with a normal loving and empathetic woman. Writing helped me too – but you feed your own troubled pains and emotions if you get pulled back to disordered people – go find yourself and a good woman – you’ll neede to heal first though.

  6. Megan said

    SD, I hate to break it to you but I think you’re addicted to the BPD because you’ve spent years figuring it out….and you continue to get that confirmation by association, even seeking the BPD out. Follow your own advise, keep the hell away and don’t invite them over for Thanksgiving dinner!!!

  7. Lynn said

    I’ve found your blog to be very helpful and validating. However, this latest event leaves me puzzled. I thought you were in recovery.Yet your 2010 Thanksgiving post is equally depressing, and in four years, nothing has changed for you. Listen to your your realistic friends who have responded here. This is tough love, brother. You need a support network that will not support you in this self-destructive pattern. There must be some payoff for you in all this drama and turmoil, and you need to find out what that is. It is hard to tell who is stalking who in this scenario.You need to cut this person out of your life completely–no calling, no texting,no notes, no flowers, no response, no contact; change your phone number; move if you have to. You can see how you have been toyed with, and the scorpion has stung again, as is their nature.You are wasting your time, and no good will come of it. Don’t let this person or anyone like her ruin your life, let alone ruin another holiday for you. This is NOT love.You need to take a break from dating and relationships for at least a year and then for God’s sake, find someone who is at the very least happy and well-adjusted. That is, unless stable and healthy women do not appeal to you. Good luck, best wishes, and I hope you have a very happy and very different 2015 and beyond.

    • jhan1969 said

      Good comment, Lynn.

      “There must be some payoff for you in all this drama and turmoil, and you need to find out what that is.”

      EXACTLY. What’s the payoff? What psychological need are you fulfilling by maintaining or re-establishing contact with the Borderline? Gotta stick your head underneath the hood, find the broken part, and replace it.

      “That is, unless stable and healthy women do not appeal to you.”

      1) For most of my life, I unconsciously believed that it was easier to be with an UNSTABLE woman, because I unconsciously believed that I could never live up to the expectations of a STABLE woman. I just wasn’t good enough/smart enough/whatever enough, so I shopped in the dented can aisle.

      2) Sex with an emotionally unstable woman is usually very easy to obtain – especially when an emotionally unstable woman uses sex to self-medicate (which many borderlines do). The downside is that it’s fun in the beginning, but starts to get creepy, based on a man’s ability to deal with the fact that he’s essentially nothing more than a human vibrator. If a Borderline woman says that sex with you is the ‘best she’s ever had,’ don’t believe it; she’s said that to nearly ALL of her sexual partners, both male and female. The best sex a borderline has is the sex she’s CURRENTLY HAVING.

      3) Many borderline women are hot, which makes it easy for men WITHOUT ‘hot-women-experience’ to fall for them. You’re just a regular guy, with a regular job; you’re going through a rough time. Maybe you’ve been through a divorce, or a family death, or an illness, or whatever . . . then this HOT WOMAN starts showing aggressive interest in you. You hook up with her, and and she treats you like the greatest thing since sliced bread. You actually START to believe you’re great, because, well . . . a hot chick thinks you’re great, RIGHT??? So you MUST be. But then her insanity kicks in. Soon enough, you’re the biggest piece of shit ever.

      This is a BIG reason why I f___ing HATE Borderline women. They prey on regular dudes who are ‘down in the dumps.’ (They also prey on women, or anyone who’s open to their sexual advances. IMO, 80% of borderline women are bi-sexual, though most won’t admit it plainly.)

      SOLUTION: befriend a dude who HAS lots of ‘hot-women-experience,’ or just a lot of experience with women. They can often spot the crazies from a mile away.

      • Marie said

        Jhan,
        I love what you wrote. You crack me up. Not ALL BPD women are hot though (case in point my mom) but I hate to break it to you, some guys don’t care and will go to bed with any woman who is easy. That is when they get stuck in the web of hot sex and craziness….what was once paradise is now a nightmare.
        Hell yes, hang out with a guy who can spot the crazies a mile away. Maybe men should go to the bathroom to talk about their dates just like women always do.
        Stay strong, stay normal and keep away from those crazy women! When you feel depressed and down about yourself hang out with someone who loves you for you.
        Sd, I missed you as well. Grab the lifeline we are throwing you and don’t let go.
        Hugs, Marie

  8. Marie said

    Dearest SD,
    My sweet friend, I feel your pain. You are aware that you are addicted to the highs and lows of a relationship with a BPD. Remember they will keep coming back when they need you for their own purposes and when they KNOW they can come back. Sex, money, help around the house, a rebound relationship ON THEIR TERMS or they are just lonely because they treat everyone badly and need a sucker…the reasons are endless. You really do need to forget about these women forever and if you do happed to think of them again then think about all the BAD sh*t they did to you. For your own sanity please stop playing the white knight. They are broken and WILL NOT BE FIXED. The BPD behavior WILL WORSEN with age. Both my parents were BPD and I dated a 52 year old BPD guy who just kept getting worse…even his own parents told him he needs to live alone.
    When my mother died at 66 this past January everyone started calling to find out what was wrong with her and why I fled from her 19 years ago. In her final years everyone knew she was totally nuts, she could no longer hide her symptoms in public like she could when she was younger. I also learned that she was very vulgar…which besides swearing at her own child I never knew she was vulgar with others. It made me realize that when my dad was paranoid that she was cheating on him when I was in high school (and she thought the same about him), hey, maybe he was right. I shudder right now thinking about what I learned about her after she died.
    My father was a BPD and an alcoholic. I have never treated anyone poorly especially someone that I loved. Like you I am the one who ends up getting hurt. Sometimes you have to just give something your best shot but that’s it…don’t keep going back. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice (thrice, etc.) shame on ME”.
    Please seek out those who love you for YOU and not what you can do to please them. And don’t cut us off here…you started this blog for a reason and saved many lives not to mention the sanity of many more. Now it seems it is our turn to help you.
    More holidays are coming up….so be on the lookout for the nuts who are desperate to spend them using someone. Stick to the tried and true people in your life instead.
    Hugs,
    Marie

  9. Henderson said

    I was in one of these. The whole thing lasted 8 years, but 2 of those years we were technically not together, but kept getting together (maybe 8 times over those 2 years) for sex–and me trying to “make it work” and communicate with her. And she kept me dangling. You can imagine how totally degrading and insane that was. To a large extent I was still trying to vindicate myself with her. I wanted her validation–finally to be acknowledged for the good, loyal, loving guy I am rather than the monster she made me out to be. It took therapy for me to get that that was linked to deep rooted insecurities and needs. But even therapy didn’t save me from going back to her when she finally wanted back in–I believe because she got rejected by someone she tried with and because she had an emergency operation that made her feel very vulnerable and alone, and she knew I would be there for her, like the lap dog I was. That lasted 8 months and ended with the same abusive rage as always. Only this time I knew it for the abuse it was and let her go and have been on the mend ever since. And let me assure you, it isn’t easy, in fact it’s incredibly difficult, often painful, and tiring–both because despite all the objective reasons for being lucky to be out, I often miss her, and because now I have to deal with myself and my life without the distracting highs and lows of this crazy relationship. Addiction is the right word. And addictions are used to distract us from deeper pain and problems. Until they become worse than the reasons we started using in the first place. I really like this blog, it tells it like it is. I think I’m speaking for most people who are putting a relationship like that behind them (which absolutely requires no contact, and active recovery) when I say that despite all the crappiness I feel better than I have in years. I am lean, working out every day, quit drinking, far more productive at work, focused, a much better parent (I’m divorced, she was the woman I left my wife for), more financially responsible, planning for the future more realistically–I mean, there is no area of my life that hasn’t improved, with the exception of intimate relationships, of course. The nights can be tough and I had to face the fact that it’s going to be a pretty long time before I am emotionally ready for another relationship. Some loneliness is just a part of the equation now. The 2 years spent hanging on were the worst in a way–and nothing really changed in me until I decided that enough is enough–it’s either this woman or my life, and I choose my life, thank you very much. Life, my kids, my future. It’s hard as hell, and so, so worth it. I hope you find the path out as soon as possible.

    • naples104 said

      as I read this blog and I hope you keep it up SD, I have to address my self more than ever. I was with a BPD three years ago and have not seen her or heard from her since I kicked her out after many episodes of walking out and all the things we all know about.

      I have been in a 2 year relationship that has been pretty rocky with a mentally healthy woman , she has issues but not cluster B, she is a type A alpha executive that is very successful but controlling. We have kids from our marriages, I have been married twice with 4 kids 2 older and 14 year old twins, she has a 13 year old boy, and two college age daughters. I am 60 she is 52.

      I find myself getting so frustrated with some of the blending of families issues and her control. The issues aside, its my reaction to the conflict which has me concerned. I yell scream and have moved out on her 3 times since we have been together. I don’t stay on point in the argument and say things I should not say and act out in a temper tantrum like fashion. she has a temper too but mine is explosive. We don’t really live to together but I spend most of my time with here but keep a separate residence which really pisses her off. I over react and then I am over it in a day and she is not which I can understand.

      My background is I was raised in a lower middle class NY family with strict discipline, spankings frequently… It was not a horror house but it was not walk in the park. I believe in the attachment theory as it relates to the relationship with your same sex parent will largely determine your relationship with the opposite sex later in life. I have been through therapy and I am clearly a recovering co-dependent. I have been saving women my whole life and when I realized why I picked these fucking losers I went 180 degrees and found some one on my level financially and intellectually.

      The therapist says that I am trying to get the love from my father that I never had as a child, I know he loved me but he was never there and worked three jobs and had very little time with the family. Long story, but there were incidents in my life as a child where my father was forced to hit me (my mother would just about order him to do for what ever behavior she did not approve of, I was not an outrageous kid but I was a kid) which caused rejection that a kid should not have to endure. Anyway, that as the back drop, I want to see if anyone has done what I do, over react, devalue during the process of conflict and do you think I am reacting this way and acting out of rage from parental rejection that happened as a child?

      The therapist says that I over do in giving so I will get the love that I never received from my father and I repeat this cycle in my relationship with women. Classic co dependency behavior with the giving and very hard to stop. When I don’t feel appreciated, resentment builds and then I boil over. The therapist says if I do something nice for her and her family its my choice and I should not do too much, but some switch goes off in inside me that makes take out my credit card when I should not. I know it sounds really stupid but it keeps happening. I thought I had it under control but I do not and it is ruining my life right now, any thoughts? I really love this woman and this issue is ruining our relationship.

      Tom

      • Marie said

        Tom,
        I have thought about your plight all week. I am speaking gently and on behalf of the children that you and your girlfriend have as I have great empathy and sympathy for them. Please move out and into your own place full time. You are doing the kids no favors by exploding in front of them (and if you think them being in their rooms means they can’t hear you then think again). Also, if you only explode when they are not around they still know about it and I highly doubt you are both able to control your emotions in front of them 100% of the time.
        Do you want to be in this relationship anyway? I don’t think so though the idea of being with her is very tempting. You still have your own place and her control bothers you. Yes, we all have issues but we need to find someone who brings out the best in us at least most of the time….is this happening with her or is she bringing out the worst in you? This is something you need to think deeply about while being in your own place.
        As for the credit card…you can’t buy people forever. If a man treated me like crap and then bought me stuff the relationship would have a very short life (no matter if he were a millionaire and could buy me diamonds, my own island or whatever else I desired). The best gift you can ever give someone is your kind, loving and non-explosive self. She makes her own money anyway…she doesn’t need anything from you but unconditional love without big fights where you say really hurtful things.
        Whatever you decide to do, good luck to you.
        Hugs,
        Marie

      • naples104 said

        Hi Marie, thanks for the reply. It is not good for the children and we have moved into our home full time. The issue is anger and reaction to control. The puzzling part for me is do I love her because I am afraid of losing her or do I really love her. We had dinner this week and talked and she admits that she is a pain in the ass at times and can be controlling but also says that my reaction to her in times of conflict is out of proportion with the issue and I don’t stay confined to the issue. I think some of that is normal and I am wrestling with, is all of the over reaction because of the co-dependent nature of my personality and can I set meaning boundaries so that when I feel the anger swelling, can I talk myself off the window ledge before I grab the relationship and jump to it’s death. She is my soul mate ands she says the same of me, and if not for the children life would be very good but we have them and do not agree on how to raise them. My suggestion is lets stop trying to raise each others kids and give each other the respect and support that we know what we are doing and need to feel good about our decisions. That is where the resentment builds for us both and especially me. I don’t feel appreciated and respected that I know what I am doing. What complicates this is my son is autistic, but high functioning. He knows he is different but plays that disability card to be lazy and she sees more clearly than I do and that frustrates her greatly.

        As for the credit card, I am not buying bling and trinkets, she is not into that, its nice dinners for the family and nice times like Disney which we all enjoy.

  10. Marie said

    SD,
    How are you, my sweet friend? I need an update as I’m worried about you.
    Hugs,
    Marie

    • savorydish said

      I’m actually doing well, sweetie. But thank you for asking. It’s been a rough few months. But I feel like I am finally purging my life of all the drama queens.

      • Marie said

        SD,
        Glad to hear that, my sweet friend. Make sure you don’t get sucked in for Christmas or the New Year. They may be desperate for company but remember they deserve to be alone. My ex with BPD tried to suck me back in for Christmas 2 years ago but I didn’t fall for it. He left a voicemail saying he “urgently” needed to talk to me. BS…I never got back to him and spent a wonderful Christmas alone but in PEACE. In Spanish there’s a saying and roughly translated it is “better to be alone than badly accompanied”…AMEN to that.
        Stick with family and close friends who are NOT emotional vampires.
        Happy Holidays and if you feel tempted to contact a BPD or to respond to one who contacts you, write to us here first so we can give you the power to resist.
        Hugs,
        Marie

      • savorydish said

        Thank you, sweet Marie. You are my guardian angel.

      • naples104 said

        I see a nice romance building here between SD and Marie, (kidding of course but if it happens I will be happy, you are both good people that deserve happiness).

        The holidays are hard not because they are all that special its the feeling that every one has someone special and if you are alone, you have no one and the feelings of “not fair” sets, that I deserve more…, and then we re-enter the bargaining phase of the grieving process from our former relationship. Our brains are programmed for pleasure and when we are in love or meet some one that we think we may love or feel love and acceptance from them our brain releases serotonin, endorphins and a variety of narcotic like chemicals that give us a sense of well being and happiness. This is what happens when we are in the grieving process. The brain reminds of all of the good things of the doomed relationship and floods us with the “feel good” chemicals, (called euphoric recall), that makes us set aside and virtually forget all of the toxic behavior that we experienced and we say, “if they would just understand this and if we could just agree on that…” life would be good and I could love her and she could love me. We have no choice in this and that bargaining phase of the grieving process dies very slowly and sometimes never, especially for the co-dependent. We want to fix and play the role of the empath and take everyone’s pain and make it our pain because we can handle it better but we cannot. The therapist that I went to for more than a year when I jettisoned the BPD I was with told me that I had to establish new rituals and become a person that was happy with myself first before I could be happy with another person, I am still working on that, it is very hard. Regression analysis helped in a big way and it allows me to recall why I feel the way I feel and talk myself off the window ledge, but it does not always work. I slip back and react which I am working hard on controlling and I will never fully control it but I hope each day is a bit better. I read each day about co-dependence and try to be a better man for me and set the boundaries for myself s that I am not disappointed with the actions of the ones I love when I do more for them than I should. Lets all stay in touch over the holidays, I will be alone Christmas Eve and most of the day. I plan on a nice quiet night, a nice dinner and some music maybe. Lets be there for one another and help the bloggers here stay the course of recovery.

        Tom

      • Tom, excellent post in regards to how the brain works in dealing with co-dependent thinking. Once I was able to identify this in my life I started to think differently. I would like to share what helped me was that I started to excising a lot. I would go jogging during lunchtime and work out on my home gym during the evening.

        My point is, you can do something to retrain your brain and behaviors for a more positive outlook on life. Looking back, I do recall sitting in self pity and bargaining with myself, however I always kept myself future focused and although I was in emotional pain, I knew in my heart it would only be temporary!

        Thanks for letting me share!

        Best wishes to you, SD and everyone!!!

        Robert.

      • naples104 said

        Robert, you are dead on with retraining your thinking and setting boundaries for your paranoia of abandonment. I work on that every day and it can be very hard but it is what we have to do to have good mental health and not drive the people we love away from us.

        Tom

      • Marie said

        SD, you are very welcome, my friend.
        Tom, yes, good analysis of how and why people get hovered back more easily during the holidays. Of course we each need to be happy individuals before becoming involved with another person. I will be here throughout the holidays for anyone who needs support.
        For those that are feeling weak already….make a list of all the nasty, horrible things that were done to you and keep reading it when you feel “pity” for an ex with BPD because they are waiting to rip you to shreds to make their holidays more fulfilling. Being alone for them is the best thing…it gives them some time to reflect and feel guilty about what they did to some of their victims. And believe me, they DO feel some guilt at least until they have a new playmate.
        Stay strong and lean on us here!
        Hugs,
        Marie

  11. Marie said

    Tom,
    Did you get rid of your extra place or are you still keeping it in case you need to escape? I can’t reply about raising each other’s children I have no experience with that. If you agreed to raise your own that sounds reasonable to me. Buying dinners and vacations is part of raising a family unless you only do that when you are apologizing for acting badly. Also, if you feel you are being taken for granted then why spend the money in the first place? You need to communicate this to your soul mate….you feel like you are not appreciated.
    Good luck!
    Marie

    • Toughmat said

      Hey everyone i have been following along and definitely agree with stuff said about holidays being tough, regulating emotions, etc. This blog is huge for me. So this girl I’ve hung out with a few times where i friend zoned myself on the first date a year ago by talking too much about my ex is hard for me to figure out. I think she likes me but I’ve been afraid to really go for her. Part of it is fear of being in a relationship again, part of it is fear of rejection i guess. But i also sense red flags from her. She kept brushing off or ignoring my invites that i tried to spread out over the course of a couple months so its not like i was bugging her everyday. Here is out exchange last night and i could use some feedback on myself and her. I know i still have a lot of things to sort out so i will take criticism openly.
      Hopefully this helps everyone understand communication more.

      Me: I’ve enjoyed hanging out with you, and I definitely care about you as a person. with that said it seems like you’re not really interested in hanging out. I can see it coming down to one of two things. Either you’re not interested at all, or you’re not interested in being friends with a guy with whom there could be more with because it’s awkward.

      Her:Stop being so dramatic. Right now I’m really into hibernating. It’s year end for me so I am working everyday and I don’t really have free time. I HATE when someone makes me feel obligated to hang out with them. You invite me places if I’m free and up for it I come out, if I can’t make it for any reason so be it. I had no idea our friendship was subject to terms and conditions such as a certain amount of communication and hangouts per your expectations. If this isn’t enough for you then I’m sorry. But I don’t live my life according to anyone’s expectations but my own. I enjoy you as a friend but I don’t need the weight on me god forbid I can’t hangout or text you back immediately. I have a lot on my plate right now and I’m not even sure why you’re taking it personal.

      Me:You need to relax with your Capitalized ‘HATE’ and making me out to be some kind of needy guy waiting on you. Give me a break and nothing can be further from the truth that i make you feel obligated. All i was doing was inquiring compassionately since in the past it seems like that is something you have appreciated.
      I can see how my message can be assuming responsibility onto you and for that i do apologize. However, unless a guy is chasing a girl, being friends in my experience is a two way street. That is without any guilt, obligation, and the complete understanding of the heirarchy of life and where the chips fall.

      Her:I’m just letting you know my perspective. And that it is coming off as an obligation because you seem hurt or perplexed that we haven’t hung out and that’s not the case. Like I said, I’m hibernating and overwhelmed with work. No one should be chasing anyone, we are equals.

      Me:Perplexed is a good word, not hurt. But i understand and in case it was not clear, i do not want you to ever feel obligated or pressured in any way with me.

      • naples104 said

        Matt, she is not ready to commit and you are. My advice is do not contact her again, no Merry Xmas, happy New Year, nothing, not out of spite out of self preservation… You will be over the top if you reach out, (in her opinion), and she will leave the field on the 20 yard line and claim touch down, that will leave you unfulfilled. If you must reach out to her send her a joke and make her laugh, nothing heavy and weighed down by relationship syrup. Let her decide if your pursuit has value, you seem to want what she does not, she views you as controlling and needy and she is telling you that she is not ready for a needy male. My opinion, you will be disappointed because you are giving “mushy” to her and she loves it but cannot return it. If you need it back you are likely to be frustrated with her. You are a co-dependent as am I and I have to talk myself off the ledge all the time when I send a loving email and I get a thanks in return. I am trying to adjust my thinking. If I send something affectionate to my lady its because I feel it at that moment. I am trying to have no expectations of a return on that emotional level until she feels it which she does but not always on my time line. hard to do, but easy to say. Back off a bit and let her come back to you when she is ready. I could be wrong but I believe women don’t want to be the comfort giver to men, they want men to be strong. If you lose your dog, you mother… they will let you cry, other wise cry and be hurt in private. Some times in matter of the heart, less is more. Like the Eagles song says, “some times to keep it together you have to leave it alone” .

        Merry Christmas

        Tom

        PS I am alone all day Christmas Eve and the day, if you need to correspond feel free.

      • Robert (Toerrishuman) said

        “The root of suffering is attachment.” Buddha

        Toughmant, you are in the friend zone with this woman, trying to make logical sense of your comments vs hers’ is not going to get you any closer to being with her.

        I have no time for games anymore in my life, I usually wait 3 dates for sign from a woman I am dating, ie. holding hands, kissing, or communicating we want more, etc., if this does not happen then there is never a 4th date,period.

        You invested a year of your life on this person, move on and let her go.

        I should mention that this is my belief, it is only my opinion which is what you are asking for. All my life I was codependent, I am no longer like this, for the first time in my life I know what I want and this works for me and I am okay with it!

        Good luck!

      • Robert said

        Robert (Toerrishuman) your perception and opinions are right on the money!!

  12. Toughmat said

    Tom thanks for your thoughts. She is actually in generaL more ready to commit to anything than i am and that is something she said when she friend zoned me. ‘Im not going to wait around until you’re moved on from your ex’. She wants the guy, marriage, kids. Im tip toeing around every female since my ex. For several reasons i think. If i met a great one who knows. But she comes across as highly emotional. Who hibernates in Los Angeles? People with emotional issues. I’m not disagreeing completely, and i am more ready to hang out obviously. But for serious stuff, she is. Perhaps she knows that and is protecting herself. Idk

    • Marie said

      Sorry I don’t know how to say this sweetly but I think you are hounding her. Do as Tom says and lay off. The holiday season can be EXTREMELY stressful. Let her hibernate and stop judging her for wanting to do so. Whether she is busy or not with work it’s her business. If this is a trait you don’t care for perhaps you should look for someone different. Lean on your other friends to hang out with and celebrate with for now. We women do like men to show their emotions and not to be the strong silent type but we don’t like to be chased after excessively just like you men don’t care to be chased excessively either.
      Good luck!
      Marie

    • Marie said

      PS If she really said those things to you they were in a way disrespectful. I would not speak to someone like that unless he were bothering me and I was not interested. Also, why does “HATE” in caps bother you so much?
      Marie

  13. toughmat said

    Marie, thanks for your comments. I will start with why I dont care for the world HATE. In the context she used it, it is rude. She is saying she hates something that she feels I am doing to her. That first text I sent was the first contact I made in over a week.

    Plus, my ex used to capitalize certain words for emphasis such as “ALWAYS”, “NEVER”, etc. So perhaps I wanted to set a boundary there.

    I agree that my text was a bit pressuring, and backing off is certainly going to happen. Im not contacting her again unless contacted first. The confusing thing for me is that if were are just friends, why is it always me that contacts her? Its not an equal friendship. She likes me but has to protect herself from the idea that Im not over my ex, and I like her but dont do anything about it. The whole notion that we are just equal friends is bs.

    • naples104 said

      Matt she may be afraid she is a rebound and you cannot love her. Take your time and see if you have real feeling for her. Marie gave me great advice, you have to love without condition and show it without pressure, be there for her and expect nothing in return. Protect your feeling and realize that love is not a line of coke and a rush, the rush will come. Love is a continuum that gets better over time. I dearly love the woman I am involved with and realizing what she needs, she needs my love and not my anger, she needs my understanding and support and in giving it I will get it return if she loves me. I am working on that every day.

      Tom

      T

  14. Marie said

    Matt,
    You are right it’s not an equal friendship. It may in fact only be a friendship from your end. If she were any kind of friend (to a man or woman) she would not always wait for the other person to text her first. When I met my husband I couldn’t wait to hear from him or call/text him back. I never spoke to him in the way she is speaking to/or not speaking to you.
    My advice is to leave a window open and definitely wait for her to contact you first. I didn’t think her “HATE” was rude…she was just emphasizing her feeling but certainly her tone and other things she said were rude. You need to erase the ex from your mind completely and let each person have a new experience with you without baggage from the past. Having said that, get out there and find a different woman to date. Learn from the mistakes you have made with this woman…no talking about exes, no hounding, no correcting text capitalizations etc. Maybe you will find your true match instead of waiting on someone who is clearly not interested. I’m sure you have much to offer some lucky lady.
    Tom, I don’t remember giving that particular advice but if I did help you then I’m really glad.
    Happy Holidays, guys!
    Marie

  15. Marie said

    SD,
    How are you my sweet friend? Are you surrounded by loved ones who treat you as well as you treat them?
    Happy Holidays and hugs,
    Marie

  16. MovingForward85 said

    Hi all. Hope everyone is well 🙂
    I just have a few points to mention if that is ok. As some may know, i had a ex Bpd gf and when she “split me black” my world felt like it came tumbling down. I was in immense pain for about 8 or 9 months. Its been just over a year now and i feel i am just about healed. I can see clearly and definitely can look back and understand how and why things went wrong. I think… even more important, i can see ‘red flags’ now which prepares me to meet my future partner.

    Ive read all these posts about co – dependency, friendships, smses etc.
    From my point of view, you need to take time to deal with yourself first. You should not be worrying about being friends or whos smsed first or even having ANY form of contact in the first place. Its amazing how clearly i see things from the OUTSIDE… IN. you will too if you take time to heal yourself.

    It is simple… it really is.. why would you want to spend time or love someone who cant love you nor show you the respect that you deserve. You need to understand that you are caught up in a web of lies and deceit whether you are friends, dating or married. Ive read thousands of posts from people who have been divorce to a BPD and have lost their homes, money and children. Every single one of them say… RUN!

    Im not one for ‘tough loving’ but people seriously need to start having more self respect and to acknowledge what is really going on in your friendship/relationship.

    I read some ofvthe things a few of you post and i think to myself , wow.. why and how do you put up with it. BUT then i think, just the other day i was going through the exact same thing. Ive had it all.. been physically abused, she ostracised me from friends and family, projection of lies and that everything was my fault. Guess what all her friends still tjink its my fault and that im a terrible person.
    Bottomline is… YOU CANT CHANGE THEM, no matter how much you love them or try BUT you CAN change yourself.

    Please, you need to cut all contact with these people and ASAP! Unfortunately they are like sinkholes.. the longer you are in contact the deeper you drag yourself into heartbreaking and turmoil.

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