Quote of the Day

March 20, 2014

“But the witch hunter believes that she has little or no black heart. She assumes to some degree a particular air of righteousness. It isn’t that she lacks a little black heart, as she would like to believe and like to have you believe, but that she is extremely uncomfortable with her little black heart.

She resists it in herself, tries to deny it, attempts to cast it out. But it remains, as it must, and it remains hers, persistently clamoring for some attention. The more she resists it, the more strength it acquires, and the more it demands her awareness.

Finally, because she can deny it no longer, she does start to see it. But she sees it in the only way she can–as residing in other people. She knows somebody has a little black heart, but since it just can’t be her, it must be someone else.

All she has to do now is find this somebody else, and this becomes an extremely important task, because if she can’t find someone onto whom she can project her shadow, she will be left holding it herself.

It is here that we see the resistance playing its crucial role. For just as the person once hated and resisted her own shadow with unbridled passion, and sought to eradicate it by any means, she now despises, with the very same passion, those onto whom she casts her own shadow.”

Ken Wilber, No Boundary

Courtesy of Yana

19 Responses to “Quote of the Day”

  1. naples104 said

    Maybe its that I have learned over 59 years to give time, time to heal, at least I think that is the reason. I have lost my anger for the BPD and cluster B people, my mission is to never be involved with them again. I really think that all of us have to focus on ourselves and realize that we have issues that drove us to bad decisions. Being with a mentally ill person is a flaw in decision making and looking back, all the signs are there. What did we miss, why did we want or allow them into our lives? Most people are not involved with mentally ill people so we have to ask our selves why does this happen to us? Are we the unlucky ones? I have spent so much time researching these people and why they do what they do and it was enormously therapeutic so I could find out why I was drawn to them and that was the turning point for me. Why did I like these destructive people and why could I not see what every one saw in them very early on. That is what all of us need to discover. Spend you time fixing you and to hell with the mentally ill people, they care nothing for you and will crush in every way possible given the chance.


    • savorydish said

      Why do you feel like you were drawn to them? Or rather, why were you drawn to them?

      • Corrine said

        I feel like a helper, like I’m wanted and special. I also feel like they are a challenge to me. Like if I can make this person happy and see get them to acknowledge my goodness, compassion and loyalty no matter how much shit they throw at me somehow I’m a better person for it.. This is completely backwards thinking. My therapist said your best quality is your worst quality – loyalty. I’m still trying to sort through my dysfunction.

      • savorydish said

        You and everybody here. We all share the same dysfunction- trying to make someone happy who is biologically unhappy. We are setting ourselves up for failure.

      • naples104 said

        I had to address my codependence and I many times have to stop that feeling of insecurity and inadequacy as we speak. The need to fix someone was over powering. It stems from the relationship I had with my father and the rejection that I experienced as a child. Its the attachment theory. I am looking or was looking to recreate the acceptance that I have been seeking from my father through my selection of women. In my subconscious I went to the most familiar place, the most comfortable place and that was to put everyone’s needs before my own. In doing so I would find women that were a mess and try to fix them. If I did enough for them they would then love me and that is all wrong. They are mentally ill and not capable of love on any level, they are the vampires of the soul. They are so broken that they are like a cauldron of lava waiting to over flow all over you. If you stay with them they will blame you, devalue and discard you. Three times in my life I went through that and I will not do it again.


      • savorydish said

        Thanks Tom. As always, I appreciate your candor. Your stories truly resonate with me. I think maybe we were separated at birth.

      • naples104 said

        thanks Jim and SD, anything I can add that helps others helps me too.


  2. jimsc said

    Great postings tom

  3. Willing Victim said

    We may have all been separated at birth and now rejoining in hopes of a rebirth. 😉

    I too like Tom’s perspective and candor in sharing his experiences. I too have figured out that I will never figure my ex. I see her often and simply have to shake my head.

    I too believe they are like heroin, at least for me. Certainly a toxin that I kept believing would harm me less the more I exposed myself to it. It was as if I thought I could build up an immunity sort of like herpetologists that dose with anti-venom to build up antibodies.

    In my case, each successive devaluation and “blackening” hurt worse than the one before. I think I am mad at myself more than anything for being foolish. Intuitively I knew I was in trouble, but each “hovering” episode that resulted in re-engagement, the initial high I got from the new adulation and apologies and promises was higher than the one before.

    I am in a pretty respectable profession with a lot of visibility and a fair amount of influence. Nevertheless, outsiders questioned my involvement with this person. They clearly saw what I clearly ignored. Anyone ever heard the Viking Proverb about the beautiful snake. In the end, she was doing what snakes/BPD’ers do.

    The head mechanic succinctly put it as me being mad about her behavior is kinda like swimming in shark infested waters while full of bullet holes. Its not the sharks fault for doing what sharks do.

    It is my fault for swimming with the sharks.

    That is why I realize the same thing Tom alluded to. It is my codependency on the drama of trying to help someone that does not want help and sees nothing wrong with what they do.

    I can truly say this. A sane person cannot make a crazy person sane. But, a crazy person will make a sane person crazy simply because the sane person tries to make sense out of the craziness.

  4. Willing Victim said

    Your welcome but more thanks to you and SD. It takes a lot to open up about this stuff. That is why this place is a good place!! Good people with unfortunate experiences, simply trying to get better and help others not make same mistakes or at least recover more quickly by educating the newly afflicted.

    I cant speak for y’all (yes…southern boy) but at first it is hard as a man to admit how much this sh&t rolls over us like a runaway freight train and hurts as deep as it does.

    Its like playing football when someone really nails you helmet to helmet and everything just spins and you feel sick. I have felt this for 2 yrs now. Wondering what the hell just happened. The cobwebs start to clear and I get my bearings and then BAM!!! She comes back and I went and played in that damn sandbox AGAIN!

    I will also touch on something that Tom mentioned and that is the ever present battle with insecurity and inadequacy. I recently met a really cool lady that is actually much closer to my age and seems to have it going on all the way around.

    We had a great couple of dates that were easy going and comfortable….then the spectre of the past rolls in…the little voice …this is going to good…its too easy…you’re missing something…there’s no way a chick this hot can dig you and not be crazy…all these compliments are set ups…traps…she is going to roll over you like the others…the texts are too mushy…the phone convo too good….you’re gonna get clubbed like a baby seal again right when you let your guard down….and on and on and on.

    She said yesterday that she was coming here for the weekend and then cancelled today saying she forgot she had 2 birthday parties to attend back home. She said she was so excited about coming that she didn’t even look at her calendar. You know what is next for me…panic….she doesn’t like me….she really didn’t have fun….she has found somebody else…..all sorts of cockamamie co-dependent insecure BS.

    I took a deep breath and just said to the voice….well, I had a good time…it was fun….it is not the end of the world…she is not the last girl…and besides this is a great reminder that I simply have a LOT of work to do.

    Is she beautiful? yes, extremely. Is she successful? yes! Does that automatically mean she can’t possibly dig me? No! Do those things that ran around in my head make her BPD? No! Am I getting triggered? YEP! How I respond to triggers is up to me.

    I just have to take it one day at a time. The sun will rise and set tomorrow. People will come and go. I simply have to quit repeating flawed patterns of attachment, but I also need to be aware but not looking so hard for something to attach negative assumptions to as a self defense mechanism.

    Am I attracted to chaotic women? Big Yes.

    Will it happen again? Quite likely!

    Am I gonna recover? Yes!

    Am I gonna heed the signs more quickly? I promise myself!

    If anyone is familiar with the Imago theory, we are attracted to what we are attracted to and you either have to retrain your brain to be attracted to something else…very hard…or learn to how to manage and balance…also very hard.

    I wonder aloud that if I weren’t codependent, would that make me un-attracted or less attracted to BPD’rs? Or would I still be attracted to the things that they often like attractive, smart, conversant ect without the enmeshment that makes it impossible to save my own skin and walk away with out crucifying myself at the alter of their destructive persona?

    In other words, is it possible to love a BPD and not be destroyed by them?

    Part of the reason I wonder this is because I am afraid that I will never be attracted to someone that is not dangerous as hell.

    So the converse of that is this….if I am attracted to someone and we hit it off and everything just seems to go so well…..is that a quick confirmation that I am simply attracted to them because they are nutz? A friend of mine says that if he meets a girl and he gets a stiffy….he runs.

    I don’t know. I want a good and healthy relationship that has all the passion that happens with the relationships that we have all experienced I just don’t know how to go about it.

    Thanks for the space my friends and have a good weekend.

    • savorydish said

      You’re welcome and thanks for your support. Have a great weekend yourself.

    • savorydish said

      I don’t know if I am necessarily attracted to chaotic women. I actually find it a turn off. I’m attracted to attractive women. But the ones who are attracted to me are the chaotic ones.

      • Willing Victim said

        Aptly put SD….well said!

        I think that is an accurate portrayal for me as well. When trying hard to make sense of why things were just not working and worried that I was in fact crazy as I was being told, I sought out professional help. I was fortunate to get a name of someone well versed in BPD. He had in fact been a minister in a past life that was married to one. She did the classic stuff. He divorced her and subsequently married another and then decided to go back to school.

        Anyhow, one of the things that we discovered in untangling stuff is that I never approached the girls that I had been involved in these torrid affairs that were so intense. That is sort of what led to the discussions of my “Mr. Fix-IT” tendencies.

        He said that if I walked into a room with one hundred beautiful women and 99 of them were sane, the one that was broken would be immediately drawn to me, dazzle me with her beauty, baffle me with her BS, and sucker me in with sympathy regarding her tragic past and BOOM I would be hooked.

        He asserts that my engineering background is my enemy in the case of BPD because I try to take a simple logical approach to problem solving except the real problem is way more complex than the problem that is presented. That is where that saying of Sane can’t fix the crazy but the crazy can break the sane.

        A great metaphor for me is the observation of the butterfly. They look beautiful while they are perched on the flower, wings gently moving and looking serene and peaceful. But then when they fly, they zig and zag, blown about wildly by the gentlest breeze and blown miles and miles off course in a storm.

        That for me is very similar to loving a BDP, they look great and feel great in the quietest of moments, and then, out of nowhere, the smallest of breezes sets them off on some tirade and you never know how far they will be blown off course. I am reminded of the some of the old Monty Python skits where you see the crazy running through tall grass trying to catch a butterfly….that’s me…nutzz…trying to catch something that really does not want to be caught even though it acts like it does.

        Thanks as always!

      • savorydish said

        I relate to all of this. Especially the part about finding the 1 out of a 100 who is crazy. But I would add that the room is a very significant choice. Where are we meeting these women? I met mine as random strangers in a bar or at a party. I knew nothing about them. I had to learn the hard way. I am making these bad choices.

      • savorydish said

        I don’t try to fix them. I try to point them towards getting help. Whatever is wrong with them I KNOW is out of my skill set. I wish I could say I have altruistic intentions, but I think I just get tired of putting up with the nonsense.

  5. Willing Victim said

    The room is metaphorical as you might imagine. I met the mad scientist/physician at a medical reception when we were randomly seated next to each other at a dinner. What ensued almost overnight was three years of blissful chaos.

    The last one I met through craigslist where I was advertising for a tenant for my condo while I was living with the surgeon. She was 24 and I was 46. I knew the minute she walked in the door there was something different. Our conversation was electric. She told me she would take the place within 5 minutes of the introduction.

    She was a master at mirroring. It began in the first 10 minutes of our meeting. I had a triathlon bike hanging in the storage room. She told me she was wanting to start training for a triathlon and that is how we started spending some time together. She bought a bike and then started swimming the channel with me and some others almost immediately. Then she said she did not want to train with the others as she felt overwhelmed by the competition. Hence, training alone. Go figure. I knew this was a bit off but I simply could not resist seeing her in a swim suit and biking/running gear.

    Then one day she asked me to stop by the condo because she thought she may have hit an electric line with a nail while hanging shelves. I walk in and she is standing on a desk holding a hammer and a nail and not wearing a single stitch of clothing. Guess what happened next. Needless to say I did not live with the surgeon many days after that. She would sleep in my bed nightly and tell me she was positive we had met in another life and we were meant to be together and the age difference meant nothing. The adulation was over the top. The sex was non stop and crazy. Like Olympic stuff. The car, the floor, the yard, the elevator, the park, her grandmothers house with granny in the next room….etc.

    The Charlize Theron look-alike I met in a bar when she asked me to make another guy, an off-duty cop, stop bothering her, which I did. I agreed to take her out next night. Go to her house to pick her up, within 5 minutes we were taking shots and knocking over lamps and chairs having crazy sex. And that is the way it went with her for about a year… the constant push pull…go to hell…I can’t live without you….crazy fights…crazy make-up sex. Her father finally told me one day that he thought I was a good guy but that I should know when to call it quits because “my daughter is just like her mother….this shit will never stop and you are gonna get hurt.”

    Here is a common thread…or threads….all were very attractive…all had love-hate relationships with their dad and very marginal relationships with mom. All were very smart and successful in their chosen fields. Each one had relayed a story of some level of sexual victimization. The sad part of the victimization part is that I can see how their behavior, the choices they made and the situations they put themselves in created the perfect opportunity for the occurrence. I am not saying it relieves the perp of responsibility, I am just saying that something about them helped bring about the situation. Subsequently, all had fetishes with bondage and role playing and forced sex scenarios. All were bi-curious and had been in same sex relationships at some point.

    My mistake is I thought I could hold on and if I worked hard enough they would change. I could tame them. I could make the pain stop. Chase away the demons. Quiet the storm and the chaos in their heads. WRONG!!! Each one would randomly meet some guy and disappear. When they would finally show up weeks or a month or so later to get their stuff…. they would say they were sorry but they had met their soul mate…the person they had always longed for…the person that completed them….they liked themselves when they were with this person…I only held them back and made them feel bad about themselves by not accepting their flaws..by encouraging them to seek treatment…..yada yada yada.

    After some period of time…each and everyone came back…same story…I made a mistake….I miss you…forgive me….lets get married and everything will be ok….and yes I am that dumb

    • savorydish said

      Yes. Metaphorical. I can relate to everything you said here.

      Living in big cities doesn’t help. I always meet the ones who run away from a small town that you’ve never heard of. But then I learn why they ran away. On a few occasions, I mentioned the name of the small town to a stranger and they had this immediate reaction- “oh, that town is bad news.”

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