Why Do Borderlines Hate the Ones They Love?

November 1, 2013

This post could have also been titled, “Why do Borderlines Fear Love?”. A frequent contributor named CeCe had this to say:

As borderline, I would like to say she is trying to convince herself that you are not worthy because she crossed into that terrorizing place deep within her where if she falls in love, if she starts to become dependent on you for validation , if she starts to trust you than she can no longer breathe.

She is in a place of utter dark terror and its because she has fallen in love with you. It truly the most horrific place. Her hot white anger is at herself for having allowed you to get so close. Her hot white anger is coming from a child deep deep within her that is probably 3 years old and she is scared, she is so scared to the point where her brain is telling her she will die ( cease to exist) if she assigns you this much importance.

It’s primal, it’s primitive- this sounds so juvenile and so lame, but its not personal with the exception that she fell in love and, like all 3 year olds, hasn’t the skills to cope or the wherewithal to know why.

CeCe has shown that women with BPD can have self-awareness. They can explain that which seems inexplicable. Sometimes, they can do it better than Nons and psychologists. They can share what it looks like from inside the disorder. Their contribution here is therefore invaluable.

98 Responses to “Why Do Borderlines Hate the Ones They Love?”

  1. naples104 said

    SD, I agree that this insight is invaluable. I always wondered why every time we got close a vicious fight was just on the horizon. I gave up at a point where the same was happening with me, if we got close I would shut down and become distant and thus the transference of their pain and anger was to you and you became as sick as they are. That is the danger with a relationship with someone that is mentally ill. They make you mentally ill along the way. Your coping skills disappear and you begin to develop dependency issues that cause a conflict of a longing and need for closeness and yet a fear of it at the same time. It my opinion that a relationship with a borderline or any cluster B sufferer is terminal in nature. It is not sustainable and will cause pain no where worth the gain. Thanks SD for the blog, it is a savior to those of us that have codependency issues and have resulted in bad relationship choices.

    Tom

  2. Susan T. said

    Tom,
    You are so right about them making you as sick as they are. It happens gradually and it could happen to anyone. It’s because when they aren’t having one of their episodes they are the most wonderful people. When they attack you they use a little bit of the truth to do so. Anyone who thinks of other people and not just themselves will see these as negatives about themselves that they need to fix. People who are caring and not self-centered don’t want to be a pain to others so they try to correct what has made them to believe are negative traits about them.
    Basically, any good all around honest person is susceptible.

    • naples104 said

      I thank Cece for her contribution and honesty, it has been eye opening and validating that a relationship with a BPD is very likely impossible at least from my perspective and experience.

      Tom

  3. CeCe Lenox said

    Thank you for giving me a voice, Having said that, I do realize that my participation in these dialogues has been suspect and not easily absorbed. I admit it, it was a challenge to read that Nons felt they understood what its like to live in my skin ( I use skin lightly, I think borderlines have thin gossamer veil instead of skin) more than I did. That has lead me to actually speak independently with someone from here, and its been eye opening. But I am going to correct the title. We don’t Hate you- we wish we could, but we don’t. We hate how much terror you fill us with, we hate how we don’t really know what to do with you or our emptiness. We hate that we cant be “”normal””., we hate that we love you but fear you in the same breath….but we never truly hate you- we reserve that virulent emotion strictly for ourselves, about ourselves.

    • savorydish said

      Thank you, CeCe.
      Your clarification helps. It helps to know they never hated us, because that is what it felt like at the time. There is no greater pain than to be hated by someone you once loved. Many of us are still carrying the scars. So don’t take any comments personally. They are not attacking you. They are attacking the memory of someone they used to love.
      SD

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Sorry SD- I think your intentions are grand, but as long as Dr. Tom runs the intensive care unit 24/7- there is no place for any borderline here.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        and please, don’t use anything I have written again. I wrote these words from a place of misconceived safety, before I realized what was going on out here. If you want Dr. Tom to run all over every post from every person who writes in, that is your choice, but his anger, hostility and white coat syndrome against anything that even smells like a Borderline makes for a provincial blog at best.

      • savorydish said

        Tom is within his right to share what he knows. I encourage healthy debate but sometimes the attacks become too personal.

        All comments here are fair game. If you don’t want it re-posted then I suggest not posting in the first place.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        And I would like to add its believed that Einstein, Beethoven, Gerturde Stein, Van Gogh, Maria Callas etc.etc. may have had Cluster B personality disorder – would someone like Tom like them to be imprisoned? I think this “”you are right and we are wrong”” attitude by your key note speaker is not helping anyone. Everyone is out here because they suffered severe rejection by a supposed borderline. Often its easier to label someone as mentally ill when they don’t want us, reject us than to look in the mirror. How convenient. “” she was mentally ill, that’s why she left me”” It just down right wrong, this all smacks in lesser tones as what the Nazi did or how women in menopause were sent to asylums…You have a very dangerous man on this blog who wont let anyone think for themselves, make a choice, or breathe unless its the oxygen mask he places on every comment that says “”property of anti-borderline “”. Have I really in any post, said “”love me, Im perfect- give me a pass.”” Have I, no . I have said only, this is how it FEELS. How can you expect to get better, how can you call yourselves intelligent when you wont allow a second opinion. What is Tom so afraid of? That I am going to sneak into Savory Dish data base and abduct all of you?? That this community of highly intelleigent beings cannot decide for themselves?? Don’t you all have your own minds, don’t you want more than one opinion? If any of you were invited to a party hosted by intelligent ,educated Borderlines, I assure you- you would be listened to, and you would not have been

      • savorydish said

        Van Gogh cut his ear off.

        Cluster B is very common amongst the creative class.

        Nobody is talking of imprisonment so let’s not jump to over dramatic conclusions.

  4. CeCe Lenox said

    I will rewrite this , as I am not sure it posted. I do think its dangerous to think all Borderlines are identical, as if Mattel manufactured us like Barbie. We are human and we all have different degrees or symptoms. Its like saying everyone with pancreatic cancer is identical, the symptoms may be textbook but the people are not. And we really, really do not love, love, love to hurt people. We simply don’t. Its not like we plot and cackle over cauldrons over our next victims. Perhaps we are more like those dogs that are “”fear biters””, Yes, I will be frank, it is difficult to read what other people “think” you feel over and over and that is why I am independently speaking to someone from the blog, as its a gentler , kinder forum with higher results. You see you cant attack people just because they stir up a memory of someone who hurt you…if that were the case, every Jewish person would kill someone of German heritage and say, “”Oh , sorry, you reminded me of my grandfather’s incarcerator”” and oh by the way, don’t take that personally. Its rather an esoteric double standard out here.. thanks again

  5. CeCe Lenox said

    and before I get off this blog, yet again…I have to say with a Mona Lisa smile to Tom…”‘Tom, don’t worry, no self respecting , fun loving, complicated, educated, brilliant “”mentally ill”” Borderline would want a relationship with you either..so stop worrying that just because the salt is in the kitchen its going to jump off the shelf and ruin your cookie batter””..oh and sorry, don’t take that personally, you just reminded me of a memory of someone I use to know…My last words are to Tom, relax- you are safe , you are healed, no one, let alone me, is asking you to re-enter into the world of the borderline..I repeat no one of the borderline persuasion is coming to abduct you and take you captive to the world of the Borderlines..you are ok, relax. Ciao my friends…be well,

    • naples104 said

      this is so sad, I am not writing to Cece, I am writing to all of you that are reading this. She is a good example of every point I have made about mental illness. If you don’t accept the unhealthy mind as it and let them crash and burn through your life, they attack and ridicule. They have no ability to listen to the other side and realize that they may be the person that needs to change. It is unfortunate that Cece with what appears to be a high level of intellect cannot engage in civil discourse about her own admitted condition, ( I did not say she is a BPD she did and hence if you are a BPD you suffer from a severe mental illness that is very hard if impossible to treat), furthermore, it is universal about BPD’s and all those that suffer from Cluster B, that they deflect, insult and defend all that threatens their belief system that they are ok and you just need to understand and accept their abhorrent behavior .

      I hope Cece takes a deep breath and gets professional help from a therapist that specializes in Cluster B. What ever she has done to this point has only empowered her to challenge in a defensive way any of the irrefutable facts that have been established about Cluster B suffers and their victims. Her chest beating about how BPD’s are just misunderstood and can be loved if you just really try to understand the damaged mind, I believe is falling on deaf ears, she has deafened mine. I will not respond to Cece again. It is a waste of time.

      Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Yes, Dr. Killdare has left the building…oh wait, someone just entered the emergency room with a borderline scab…he must put aside his golf clubs and yet again..re-enters the hospital to guide all these poor suffering souls with his firm yet gentle advice..because that is what the good doctor who has no degree does…Yes, Tom..Borderlines are a waste of time,,,,so why are you all wasting so much time on us…God, get me back on that bus to Loon Ville..fast…you don’t treat patients on other side of the tracks do you Dr. Tom? .you don’t come over to the Borderline part of town and volunteer in our hospitals do you..phew…I came here with no ill will, but I will be damned if I am going to be the whipping boy for your need to advise these poor people 24/7…aren’t there any suicide hot lines you can volunteer for…let me start a blog right now about your disorder., and man oh man do you have one… ..God, yes- Bravo for the Borderline…if I didn’t feel it before, I certainly do now..oh wait a minute…there is another one, another slash victim coming in on the stretcher run get Dr. Tom before its too late…,..

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Again, Tom…nobody want YOU to love us. I am empowered because I am intelligent, I don’t judge people based on old muscle memory and scar tissue, I don’t pretend to be a doctor, and I don’t think rounding up every person with Borderline symptoms and taking them to a concentration camp and labeling them with some kind of star while you make the world safe and borderline-free is a sign of sanity. Again, nobody want you, no borderline is beating down your door, you have been rejected by a human woman- rejection is hard, especially when we have low self-esteem.

  6. toughmat said

    Cece, you are a smart woman, intellectually, but emotionally you are really exposing yourself here. First of all, much like my ex, you keep bowing out but then you show up again.. All these false time constraints and “last words” make it hard to believe anything you say. You are also being extremely sarcastic and passive aggressive calling him Dr. Tom over and over and such…my ex could be like that as well. Tom may have been wounded by a bpd and it probably still stings, but he has been open minded to different concepts including when he talks about his own issues…..plus even when i feel weak and express how I want to go back he has been open minded to that but issues warning. I think you are right Cece, that a lot of bpds are charming, fun, loving, etc…my ex was…but even that line you used about how no bpds would want to date Tom…thats something similar I heard from my ex as well when she felt rejected….she said “good luck finding a hot, fun, passionate,,,on and on…girl to watch the fights with”…and you know what, you are right, and she is right…you guys are fucking addicting and amazing….but at the end of the day the stuff you are spewing out is why mentally healthy men walk or stop putting up with the emotional upswings. Like SD said, it is horrible when the woman we loved or love hates us, and similarly, when the one we love can be so sweet but then rip us apart with intentions to hurt when they feel hurt or slighted. Even if we all grasp the root cause and that sticks and stones may break our bones but words will never hurt us…they still reveal ones character. I think we are all after some consistency. You started out sweet, and nice, but clearly you got frustrated and went to town.

    • CeCe Lenox said

      I sent the link to this site to my psychiatrist who specializes in borderline . I wanted a real perspective on what is going on out here from a medically educated person who has been licensed by the state of NY and who practices in Manhattan, who actually provides legitimate, neutral treatment and advice , who has treated hundreds and hundreds of borderlines and other personality disorders and he was shocked at the mis information, the mob mentality and the high level of toxic hostility, and the egos of certain writers who seem to be feeding off the sorrow and weakness of new writers . His recommendation was this is not a safe or nurturing blog for anyone to participate in, So , it isnt that I didn’t total dig being vilified for days, but I am leaving under a TRUE doctors advice. be careful out here…and he too agreed, the Salem Witch Trials, Nazi Germany too started with little angry people drawing lines and making judgments.

    • . CeCe Lenox... said

      Except Tim…I did meet Tim out here and for that I am grateful..

    • naples104 said

      Matt, we need to listen to all opinions and that has worked for me. Cece is clearly a troubled woman and angry over something but her posts teach me a lesson, that borderlines are very nasty people when challenged with the reality of their own illness. I believe her when she is a diagnosed borderline, her vitriol reminds me of the insulting behavior of the three cluster B women I have known.

      Tom

      • Tanya said

        One of the main reasons I visit SD’s blog is to ensure that I, as someone suffering from BPD, am more aware of how to lessen the potential suffering I may cause my partner. There are a great number of blogs written by “nons” (though, frankly, I fear the “us v. them” thing is tiresome), but few are as BPD-friendly as SD, who has been kind enough to reduce the generalisation and depersonalisation of those afflicted with this disorder. I am grateful for this wonderful resource which bridges the gaps between my mind and that of my partner. I have much to work on, and I would have had no way of knowing where to begin if people like SD merely insulted those in my predicament. Comments like Tom’s, which I understand are no less worthy of being here than my own or any other, are the reason I am apprehensive to participate in what could very well be constructive discussions of ways I could alleviate the burden my behaviour places on my loved ones. (yes, *loved* ones, because this is, you may be surprised to find, something I am quite capable of)

        Cece’s posts may not have been eloquent or relevant or even coherent at times, but I hope you may change your mind in labelling her as “troubled” or “nasty” if you consider that she came here for help. We all do. Instead, she was offended and judged. Isn’t it a natural human response to get emotional, as she had? Frankly, I’ve seen worse replies to a YouTube comment saying “What Does The Fox Say” wasn’t all that funny. There may have been a couple of death threats, too…

      • naples104 said

        Tanya, you are right, I am not here to help the borderline, I am here to offer my experience and what I have learned. I am not qualified to offer advice to you about healing the wounds that have taken place in your life or the lives of any sufferer of cluster B. You too are victims of what has taken place in your life that you did not cause or ask for. If I seem insensitive, I apologize. I can only offer what I have learned of why certain behaviors both by non’s and BPD’s take place, again as it relates to my own experience. I do welcome any comments irrespective if they are complimentary to me or not. I think that the victims of the BPD behavior understand my commentary and I do understand why the BPD’s do not appreciate what I have to say. Nevertheless, I will continue to try to be helpful until SD asks me to stop.

      • savorydish said

        Thanks for the support and feedback, Tanya.
        When you have a room filled with Nons and Bps, someone is bound to get upset. This only goes to show how emotional this topic is. What is being said can be tainted by irrational emotions, but the end effect tells us a lot about the nature of such relationships.

      • Tanya said

        Tom, thank you for apologising – though I’m afraid I may have given the impression that your comments are unwelcome, which is not at all the case.

        Does it hurt when a stranger says “BDPs are all filled with hatred… who will crash and burn through your life… and attack those who disapprove of their abhorrent behaviour”?* Yup.

        Does my brain read this as a personal attack, interpreting that you really meant to say “You, Tanya, are so shitty at everything ever that even I, an anonymous stranger, am aware of your shittiness because it is common knowledge that you are a little shit.” You betcha.

        Do I have some of these seemingly insignificant comments memorised by heart? Mmhmm. Do those words haunt me, echoing in a chant, over and over, whenever I screw up, whenever I hurt those I love, or whenever I so much as break a nail? Sure. Do these things keep me from sleeping, eating, leaving my house for weeks? Yes.

        But are you at fault for any of this? Fuck no. You are not responsible for my issues – I am. I may not have been taught to deal with things like offhand impersonal criticism in a healthy, mature way, but that doesn’t mean I’ve given up on learning. And I am grateful for your comments. By isolating the specific emotions they trigger and identifying which words in particular had struck a chord, I am able reflect on my most flaws and get to work on ’em. Cheers!

  7. CeCe Lenox said

    and its true, most women, whether they be Borderline or not, do become frustrated with weak , whining men. Women are hardwired to want the alpha male, the one who will throw the strongest off springs, not weaklings and criers- there is something oh so sexy about John Wayne and Clark Gable, not so much pull for Pee Wee Heman – blame cave man and evolution on that…. so yes, I was totally, totally frustrated and defensive and most women would be. Women give birth to children, they don’t date or marry them…sorry, sometimes I just love telling it how it is…..oh no, she started out so kind and sweet …

  8. Susan T. said

    CeCe,
    I don’t think you understand how much people with BPD hurt others. It’s not something you just get over. Like Tom said they make you just as sick as they are. Maybe, you just don’t realize how much it effects someone when they love you and in the end turn against you for no good reason.

  9. toughmat said

    Cece,

    If you read all of my posts on the history of the site, you would know that I am very much in love with my ex and always play borderline devils advocate. Tom and SD usually tell me there is no hope and I have been 4.5 months of no contact not only because of their advice, but because of my own opinions, my friends and family, and this site.

    I have seen 4 psychologists about the relationship and most of them agree that it is an unhealthy dynamic for me and part of it you just eluded to in your last post by talking about the type of MAN it takes. I am not a John Wayne type and when my ex would get mad and give me a guilt trip and accuse me of “ALWays putting my friends first” and “she is ALWAYS an afterthought” it would drive me crazy because I had usually just done something nice for her and she was happy. Maybe that is the object constancy stuff.

    maybe you can tell me more about what your psychiatrist said? . Also, please tell me,. what is the difference between John Wayne type of champion man and an enabler?

    • . CeCe Lenox... said

      This really is not healthy for me or you. I pay my shrink to take care of me, not to destroy me, not to vilify me, not to lock me up..he has my Best interests at stake as I am his patient. He is clearly concerned about the misdirected anger on this site, the mob mentality , but mostly people who are not qualified giving medical advice. My Dr. does not tell me over and over how horrific I am because I “”remind””him of someone who once hurt him- everyone must see how skewed that is. I am having a very hard time even trying to be honest in these posts..””Lord of the Flies”” come to mind. Men- I am so sorry, but women are hardwired to want the alpha male ( even in the animal kingdom they are, think of two elk locking horns) Their bodies know that these men will be strong, that their DNA will be strong when passed on and that they will not be weak and protect the from danger.
      Its simply what has kept women producing healthy off spring since the beginning of time. Boundaries ,I suppose is the difference between enabling and being a strong man. Women, not just Borderline women, need to totally respect a man they are involved with. We respect strength of character. We respect men who have control of themselves and their environment. I really do agree with your ex, you probably wont find someone as intelligent, fun, passionate and bright again- but that comes with these horrific experiences you all seem to have had. I asked my current lover who I have been with over 3 years what he thought. Now, burn me at the stake for this, but he said if he had the choice of a life with a woman who was always predictable, never hot and cold in bed and who had come thru life without bravery from trauma, he would chose me.every time ..now obviously we are not perfect, but I really do not abuse him as he doesn’t stand on his pedestal and call me mentally ill all day either. My dr. thinks when you cold turkey your heart, or cold turkey anything, it leave you stuck ..you have chosen inauthentically and you will return over and over to the trauma of the relationship throughout your life until you have truly understood and resolved it…..That’s why crash diets never ever work- ever. But these are my thoughts, my dr. comments and my lover’s imput…and yes, I have pulled Borderline crap on my lover, but because I respect him and he has set boundaries and I think of him as a strong “”manly”” man its been minimal.

  10. . CeCe Lenox... said

    And if you really want to know, I am at my worst with “”weak men”” who have mother issues, who give in to me all the time, who try to do too much , who exhibit more feminine than male qualities. Like all 3 years old, if I am allowed to spin out of control, I will. If I know that there are boundaries that I can and cannot cross, if I know that my borderline behavior will not be tolerated, I feel much more in control of myself and develop respect for my lover. Cause and effect takes place. If I continue to do Y behavior than X will be he consequence and if those boundaries are firmly held, it works. Now my Dr. actually encourages me to have this relationship based on firmness, you cannot cure yourself of anything by locking yourself away from the problem. I can take time-outs , which I need to do often, but I think that’s what many men do, they retreat for a bit when angry or hurt. I think you have to WANT no contact , I mean really feel no need to see your ex in order for it to work, otherwise you are always fighting yourself. Total abstinence from a problem , usually results in a disease or dis -ease of your mind.
    My dr. supports me, he does not try to turn me into Marie Antoinette and make me put my head on the block all day…here is a curious fact…History thinks King Henry VIII was a co-dependent..now, you see how that worked out for him when he tried to “”establish his very own form of “”no-contact”” on his queens….The Borderline responds well to strong men who make it clear what they will and will not accept- that’s my humble opinion

    • savorydish said

      BPs respond well to assholes and abuse people who are kind to them.

      CeCe is right when she says this instinct goes back to primitive times. It is the primitive part of the brain that is responsible for BPD.

      BPs are trauma survivors. Therefore, their survival instincts are on hyper-drive. That’s fine when you are living in pre-historic times.
      But it becomes maladaptive when you are dealing with modern day relationships.

      This is why BPs act so brutally. They are acting like cavewomen. That’s why they abuse you and then tell you to move the fuck on.
      They are incapable of acting with compassion, when the survival mode is on.

      The irony is this- who do you think they run to when they are tired of the caveman who has used and abused them?

  11. . CeCe Lenox... said

    But, my shrink truly, truly does not believe in the health of what going on in this site..aka, advice from non professionals, the anger, the blame etc. For me anyway, and for any intelligent borderline, having Tom diagnose and advise all day will do more harm than good. I suggest you, toughmat- get off this site, and seek REAL professional help that is qualified but mostly NEUTRAL . No doctor is going to demonize the borderlines all day everyday in your therapy sessions. They will give you healthy strategies for coping. An anger blog grows its own horns and hooves- having one writer bully everyone not of like mind, smacks of ignorance.
    . Anger and revenge are activating emotions, they do feel better than depression and feeling victimized- but its when people like some on this blog stay in those emotions, nothing moves forward. mat- do you really, really want to be posting out here 24/7 for months and months or do you want to get clean, unbiased, REAl medical assistance. I for one, pay my shrink to help me and advise me and when he read this blog and advised me to unsubscribe and stay with real medical help, I listen. Good luck, but always, always use your mind and your hear…don’t be bullied or “mobbed”” into hate situations .

    • savorydish said

      Nothing here is meant to replace real medical advice. I agree with your shrink. If this place triggers you then you should not read this blog.

      What we offer here is practical advice to supplement whatever medical advice you may receive. This place gives a voice to people who are often ignored when people talk about BPD.

      • savorydish said

        If your shrink wants to correct what he believes is misinformation then he is more than welcome to join the conversation.

        No offense but I would rather hear his opinion without your biased filter.

    • savorydish said

      CeCe, it is quite clear that you have a lot more treatments to go. I don’t mean that as an insult.

      You don’t have to be a professional to see that you are in the active throes of BPD.

      • naples104 said

        As SD said, I believe that all the input here from non’s and active BPD’s is an education for each of us. I welcome the exchange of ideas from those suffering from cluster B, the victims and the people that have recovered from being a victim or a sufferer and would really appreciate if a trained professional in cluster B would write here.

        Tom

  12. CeCe Lenox said

    It appears you are all swimming in your only own thoughts, a pool swirling and swirling of only your hurts, treading around around in your own suffering , . And a shrink gets $200 an hour to treat borderlines, he isn’t going to jump on this site and stay mired in this diatribe of “”she did it, she is ill, she is wrong, she is,she is , she is…”” . I don’t think you do want others to write in, whether we are in the throes or not….it appears too overwhelming for everyone. YOu get away with a lot of offensive, hurtful behavior because you say “”no insult intended, don’t take it personally”.
    SD can make a blanket statement that my lover of 3 years is an asshole abuser…how can you say that? You don’t know him – And SD writes he doesn’t want any of my biased information from my doctor posted here, but I have read 100 posts where other people have written what their doctors have said or thought against the borderline.
    How I feel , “”no insult and do not take this personally”is its like being invited to Race for the Cure, but anyone who is still undergoing chemo cant walk in the race, why they cant even get past the registration table with the pink ribbons without someone shouting at them “” Go away, what are you doing at this anti-cancer walk, you have cancer .”” A few of your followers write me independently because they did like to hear what I have to say,and they prefer to exchange ideas without all the name calling, and mental illness label assignements that came with these exchanges. If you want to stay in your pool and tread water and swim around and around in circles without anyone but the “”white healthy non borderline victims”swimming beside you than that is your right, this is afterall YOUR site.

    • savorydish said

      CeCe,
      Your emotions are clouding your ability to communicate. I never said your partner was an abuser. I never said your shrink was biased. I said you were biased. You have a tendency to misinterpret people’s comments when you are in the heat of the moment. So maybe it’s best if you come back when you’ve cooled down.

      • Tanya said

        “Your emotions are clouding your ability to communicate… come back when you’ve cooled down.” Hoo boy.

        Sorry to butt in on someone else’s argument again, but lord do I hate being told that. Which isn’t to say you don’t have a point there, SD, about the perceived attacks and all. But personally, telling me to calm down mid rant is a sure way to illicit the totally opposite effect. Phrasing like that is translated in my brain as a call to access “Full Tilt” mode. Getting better at it, though, and I’m sure Cece will, with time.

        The worst part is whenever you have a legitimate cause to lose your temper – say, your car broke down, then your boss chewed you out all day, and then some pervert tries to squeeze in a fondle on the evening bus – and so once you get home, you decide to slam the front door shut on your way in… but are greeted with yells of “God, crazy much?” “What’s wrong with you!” “Forget your medicine?!”… Sorry, tangent.

        Actually, I’m beginning to learn a lot from these little spats here. Reading into Cece’s logic is all too cringe-inducing in its familiarity, having spouted my share of ridiculousness over non-existant arguments… So I kind of want to stroke her hair and say “I know that feel”. But I’m also able to see where she goes full WTF, so I’m able to look at the things I recall myself saying and where it could’ve used some de-BPD editing. Just have to hold on to that, I suppose.

      • savorydish said

        You bring up a valid point, so how does one defuse someone who has gone into full-rage, when emotions are short-circuiting logic?

        How do you deal with someone who reacts with disproportionate rage?

        Do we validate their rage and thus reward the behavior?

        Do we engage in an argument that can’t be won?

        Do we ignore the person only to trigger their feelings of abandonment?

        What is the win-win solution?

      • naples104 said

        SD, the only wining solution is to get out of the relationship. That is the win win, the non goes away and has to heal and discover why we are in the relationship and why we stay or should stay. The BPD can either cool down only to repeat the scenario or seek the reason why it happens from a professional. I can find no reason to suffer from either perspective, the conflict that ensues when the result is pretend it did not happen and it wont happen again or continue the talking to yourself on the part of both parties. It is like a game of tic tac toe, if played perfectly, no one ever wins until you stop playing and you realize its a game without a winning solution.

      • savorydish said

        It was rhetorical question but I agree. The only reasonable solution is to leave the no-win scenario. It is unreasonable to think that a partner should tolerate emotional outbursts.

      • Tanya said

        Honestly? I have a partner who’s patience is worthy of sainthood. We’ve been together for over five wonderful years, and if I think about how much he has changed my world… nope, can’t do it – need tissues. BRB. I’ll ask him if he’d be interested in sharing a little about how he puts up with me, though.

      • savorydish said

        I would love to have him here.

      • savorydish said

        Tolerating emotional outbursts for five years will take its toll on someone.

      • savorydish said

        Know that your responses are driven by your fear of abandonment.

      • naples104 said

        Tanya, his input would be invaluable for those that staying in their relationships, wanting to stay or go back into one. I commend both of you for putting the effort that it takes to maintain that commitment when so much can be working against it.

      • savorydish said

        I don’t doubt that he has changed your world. But let’s be honest. Love does not cure lifelong trauma. Nor does codependency.

      • savorydish said

        Nobody likes to be told their emotions are clouding their mind. But that is the truth. The inability to handle the truth prevents recovery. Denial is the enemy. When the BP can deal with honest criticisms in stride, they will know they are on the path to recovery.

  13. CeCe Lenox said

    The few people who are writing me independently are doing so because they have become fearful of voicing something and getting their heads chopped off….and I understand Tom, he is passionate about what he believes. He is like a father or more like a Mama Bear who has recovered ( although not completely) from something that almost destroyed him- he is like one of the Mothers from MADD and he thinks if he lectures long and hard enough it will will win..but he doesn’t realize that not every teenager with a license is going to kill…I was almost destroyed by a lover who was a diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, now if you want to be die in a relationship, grab one of them. I then spent too many years vilifying every man who had those qualities, I read too many books putting them down, I hated all Narcissists….but then I realized how I was the one who CHOSE to be in that relationship. I stopped hating all Narcissistic Personality disorders..I say to you I think its human nature, not just Borderline , to become defensive, to raise the flag, man the battleships when under attack. If you need to bully and break the heads of everyone with a different opinion or even Borderlines “‘in the throes”” than have a private blog, be like one of those “”white only country clubs that are good god, still in existence, but man up to it. The men who write me, have felt almost bullied out here, is that good? Is that the way to heal? So yes, I am the cancer victim, who is still undergoing chemo and SD you make it feel like because the cancer victim still needs another round of chemo that she should be ashamed of herself for trying to even think about healing., that a cancer victim who is religiously taking chemo and has a relapse should be punished and certainly, certainly do not show up in public with a bald head and any weakness at all because we will bully you right out of the anticancer walk and smile as we do it

    • naples104 said

      every now and then someone like this wanders in here like a poltergeist, we all listen because we want to understand that sick mind and then we realize all they are is filled with hatred and paranoia, when challenged with the reality they live in and the adverse effect they have on the people that they are involved with they attack, devalue, discard and then split black. Nothing new here from her, she is like the last BPD that stumbled across this blog and tries to tell all of us that we should not be here.

      Tom

  14. CeCe Lenox said

    So I ask SD & Tom or anyone else…WHAT WOULD YOU DO, if because of a childhood trauma that you had no say in, if God had chosen you to be the Borderline for this lifetime- and you were in therapy, and in a relationship where your lover assures you, he is not getting hurt and you have a high profile terrific career and yes, are beautiful …what would you like us to do, Never write a response on a forum, never leave our houses, wear a big scarlet B on our chests, or a star on our sleeve like Nazi Germany, should we constantly go to the mirror and say “‘You are mentally ill, you are mentally ill, what are you doing on this planet”” what would you two do? Would you be like me and be deep in therapy and yes, it is a primitive response, its like trying to tear your own heart out with a butter knife, its almost impossible but some of us do think we deserve to breathe the air and to live…God chose us to endure this disorder, we didn’t smoke or take drug and inflict it on ourselves, we were defenseless children….so if we are not in hurtful relationships, have terrific careers, are in therapy….what is it you want from us….what would you two be doing differently??? Please answer that

    • naples104 said

      Cece, it is your past that makes you a BPD not God, the loving God I know has provided you with the tools to address your mental illness and get healthy, you have chosen to do nothing but make excuses and explain your illness as a personality quirk and fate.

      Tom

    • Susan T. said

      It is not a 3 year old’s fault that they were abused but, when they become adults it isn’t their fault. However, that is not an excuse or gives them the right as adults to abuse others and traumatize them. Some never get over this abuse.

  15. CeCe Lenox said

    No offence, but it is fate. Borderline disorder begins between birth and age 3 or 4 and there is evidence that it may even begin in the womb from stress hormones created by the mother which effects her fetus. There is a high percentage of babies who were conceived during the German occupation and winter famine of Holland that were born bi-polar and borderline. Sorry Tom, a pregnant woman starving under German occupation is not a CHOICE, THATS FATE

    Fate is when a 3 year old is repeatedly subjected to sexual abuse by a full grown man- that is my case. Now Tom, as no 3 year old goes thru the neighborhood taking her panties off and seducing grown men, that is FATE. Now, no 3 year old can commit suicide, or hire a therapist or seek group counseling- so they have to make the decision to survive. Is it a personality quirk? God if only it were, but its not a death sentence either. No one has made excuses, let alone me…I said from day one…this is how it FEELS. It is fate Tom….no 3 year old CHOSES sexual abuse…borderline is not a choice, and my past is not my CHOICE.. ..this is where your lack of intelligence I commitment to only you being correct, reveals itself. …I am using the tools to address it, I am not out here bullying everyone into my opinion or declaring that being a borderline is a CHOICE I made and that its not fate…

  16. CeCe Lenox said

    ..””like the last borderline that stumbled across this blog””…Wow say no more……reads those words , read those words…””Just like the last borderline…”and that’s where you and your 100% healthy self is stuck…..all your life, it will be ..””just like the last borderline”” said with a dog snarl and hissed contempt…..well, dialoguing with a man who thinks that being a Borderline is a choice ( when everyone who is remotely educated knows that it occurs before age 3 and Yes, that’s FATE) and yes, just like the last borderline, poltergeist that stumbled across this blog …I am sure she saw right thru you…are you educated? do you have a college degree even? a masters? a doctorate? Any one who just wrote that being a Borderline is not FATE, hasn’t done his homework- maybe th dog ate it …Maybe in your next life Tom, someone will put things up your anus and other parts when you are an innocent 3 year old and than someone can smugly declare why it is you cant Please him in a romantic relationship.., someone can smugly tell you THAT WASNT FATE,, someone can declare to you that a wonderful kind God allowed that ..Wow , how telling these past 2 posts have been…..SD- How about this for your next Post…Borderline Disorder is a Choice, NOT Fate…you would be laughed right off the internet..Tom takes all this time to write its a mental illness than has the audacity to say its a choice , not fate…
    Wow

  17. toughmat said

    There has to be a middle ground between the two sides:

    Cece’s A. Borderlines suffered, are victims for life, and it takes Superman, not a pussy weakling to be with one so who is going to man up and take care of them but get rewarded with amazing passion, sex, charisma, etc. all the while getting pushed and proded but taking it like a real man etc.

    and

    Tom’s B. Borderlines are nuts, and no healthy male should be with one because they are sick for life and will always split and paint black and are abusive and it is impossible and all men who value themselves should leave and escape co-dependency.

    Tom and SD do seem to have a place for borderlines who no longer play victim to the past and are all about healing (seems to be rare). I can sympathize–I STILL play victim (not intentionally) by my mom’s death at 15 so I cant imagine how much easier it is for the subconcious mind to play victim and allow it to form one’s identity having been raped let alone repeatedly.

    Cece, you are talking about how it feels, but you are also telling us how the REAL man should feel …which is questioning man-hood and falls under that umbrella of manipulating abusive garbage that yes, while we love the woman and they are great, is still bullshit.

    I think Tom is right, John Wayne would have probably been like, “look, I love you and Im being patient and I care about you, but give me a break with this accusation stuff and belittling for no reason. Now get help, because while Im a real man, Im not superman”

    Because a real man, doesnt need a woman to make him feel like one. A real man validates himself. I see the point that a real man will put up boundaries. But I guess sometimes the boundary is walking away until (if ever) the borderline or undiagnosed borderline heals. And sometimes that means acknowledging our own co-dependence and walking in order to heal that as well.

    • naples104 said

      Matt, I will be forever dependent on therapy because codependency begins when the abuse took place. In my case it was physical abuse discipline and my father working three jobs and almost never there. He passed many years ago. My mother was a loving yet stubborn woman. They both were well intentioned but there is no perfect parenting. They had choices that were no clear at the time with respect to discipline, it was a time of discipline and structure in society. Today if the physical abuse that I experience happened to a child they could call the police and be taken from the home. Recalling those experiences and understanding theories like attachment, projecting, arrested development and all the things I have spoken of on a non professional level have put me in a position to make better choices. I love my parents and I lost my mother on mother’s day this year to Alzheimer’s after taking care of her for many years. I have forgiven them for what they did not know at the time I was a child. That is so much different than a child being sexually abused. I have never experienced that so I cannot comment on if that person can regain good mental health. In my case, the three cluster B women I had relationships with one had been sexually abused the others were physically abused on a long term basis. The latter 2 have attempted recovery but never stayed with therapy and as result are leading miserable lives. The one that was sexually abused talked of the sexual abuse of her father loving her in the wrong way but is horribly abusive in an emotional aspect to all around her. She gave up on therapy man y years ago. When you speak of a middle ground, for me I see none. When I read the out of control anger that many borderlines that have been on this site exhibit, exhibit it brings me back to the horrible conflict that I experienced while in these relationships. Having said that, everyone is different and some people can rip each other in an argument then act as if it did not happen a short time later. My emotional make up does not allow that. I do not judge anyone for the choices they make but I don’t give them a pass when they make a bad choice that they knew could have been a bad choice. We all must take responsibility for our actions and choices even if the actions are as a result of the way were treated as children. It is out responsibility to seek help and admit that we may be different for a reason that has been out of control. I have an autistic son that is very high functioning but is very different. It my responsibility to make sure that he has the tools to function in the society that he lives in and teach him accountability for his choices and actions. That is not an easy task. I look for not sympathy and I tell him to seek none as well. he has to accept the way his sensory system works and the way his mind works and learn to function and interact in the non autistic world in which he lives.

      Cece thinks that we hate her and that we want her in a rubber room sedated so she sits silent and bothers no one. personally, I don’t care who she is, (she has alluded to great beauty, education and being in a position of prominence), I could not care less if she is really Michele Obama. She has exhibited extreme hostility, been acrimonious, sarcastic accusatory… These are not the actions of a well adjusted mind. I have and never would tell her to stay locked up and ostracized from society. If she has found love and a career, good for her. What she has not found is a way to have a conversation with someone that does not accept her opinion as fact. She has told us all that we should abandon this site, that it is harmful.

      This site was the catalyst to my recovery and discovery of why I made the choices I made in life. I thank all of you for sharing those intimate and private aspects of your lives and allowing me to share mine. It has been very therapeutic. I will continue to comment on here and try to help in any way I can. So many here helped me when I needed it.

      Matt, if you rejoin your lady in a relationship, I truly hope it works out. For me living an interacting with mental illness is not a choice, it is way too toxic for me. You and others may be different and I can only offer my experiences and what has worked for me. That is the beauty of this blog. SD allows all with anything to say about their lives with a cluster B sufferer and anyone that has been affected by a cluster B sufferer to say it here. I want no one silenced for their opinion be it as a non or as a BPD or any of the other personality disorder sufferers. I hope this clears the air. I welcome all comments irrespective of how caustic they may be.

      Tom

      • Susan T. said

        With people with a borderline personality it is almost like a game of I am rubber you are glue. What you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. When you state facts about a borderline they become very defensive and they find ways to low ball you with insults. You have to remember they are projecting what they feel about themselves onto you. They will argue with you and put all of the blame on you. They never take responsibility for their part in the argument and accuse you of starting it. They won’t stop until you admit you were wrong and apologize.

      • savorydish said

        Yep. Yep. Yep. This is what makes partners crazy. Literally. Tolerating crazy making behavior does not make you a saint. It makes you a masochist.

    • savorydish said

      Well-said, Mat. Emasculation is a tool used by borderlines who have been hurt and looking for revenge. They use it to bring you down to their level.

      The fact that CeCe resorts to this quite easily and quite frequently tells me she is a serial abuser. Emasculation is abuse. It is the emotional equivalent of the borderline snipping off your balls.

  18. CeCe Lenox said

    Toughmat ( love that call name) great healthy post. I understand completely. Hasn’t this post alone taught us all that we cant co-exist? It has me and I know it has all of you. This post made total sense, was presented with intelligence and tinged by just a little bit justified anger, but it wasn’t painted totally in hate. John Wayne had a hard time walking away from Maureen O’Hara and she was pretty untamed stuff..and she insulted him all the time….., but yes, no one wants you to stay with someone that makes you unhappy or sick or ill or is mentally ill..no one, just don’t get stuck licking your wounds and filling them up with hate and anger…And yes, what in hell were all of you perfectly kind, nice, perfect, intelligent men doing with all of us mentally ill women….now start there and I love it…””only superman need apply”” so works …YOu have all been terribly terribly shattered, but it wasn’t by ME, not me personally…try to remember that when you meet other borderlines..

  19. CeCe Lenox said

    The myths of mental illness ( for real) Mentally ill people do get better. If you continue to stigmatize them with shame and launder them in your anger, no progress will be made. When fear and myths are exposed with knowledge , kindness and common sense then hope and progress is made.
    Mentally ill people are many times brilliant and hyper sensitive to the attacks of shame and anger that uneducated people assign them. Blanket stigmatizing people with shame and anger and revenge will not result in any healthy progress. What would any of you do if your life suddenly began to shrink down, get dark and change in incontrollable ways? I don’t think you would handle it any other way than we do, because you wouldn’t be able to …you would seek treatment, but what if you haven’t even graduated from high school and you haven’t even heard abut borderline personality disorder, then your world is filled with Terror.
    If you were educated, you would seek help and hope for compassion, you would not want to be surrounded by angry people who constantly filled you with anger and shame. Yes, you would seek out people who helped you- doctors and Men who are strong and set boundaries and treat like a human being , not an demonic animal What would any of you do if you were borderlines and yes, its not a choice, it is what fate presented us with in the past. I wish you would all go spend the day on the borderline site, they talk about wanting to commit suicide, they talk about how horrific it is that their treatment is not moving ahead quickly enough, they are sad that they have hurt the men they loved, they talk about dying like you talk about going on a cruise with your 100% healthy new girlfreinds, they most often want to get out of this life , they are filled with enough shame that you don’t really have to heap on more.
    Don’t own yourselves as the only victims this life has created. Leave us, that is so wise- its a good decision for most of you, but don’t spend your days and nights in writing in anger, attacking, calling names, assigning guilt and shame because the borderlines treatment is not complete. God help anyone that develops cancer in this blog and shows up in the middle of treatment, with a bald head, feeling isolated and sick. Tom, you would roll over on your non borderline someday grave if you knew who I really was…Goodbye my awesome men…..may you all be reincarnated as borderlines in your next life..and may I be the co-dependent bitching all day long..I would trade in a heart beat

    • savorydish said

      The truth doesn’t stigmatize people, it opens up the opportunity to see themselves as they really are.

    • Susan T. said

      Having cancer is not the same as not managing your mental illness and hurting others.
      Savory,
      you are right the truth hurts!

    • savorydish said

      Your lack of compassion for codependents is stunning.

      • naples104 said

        it may not universal, but when you read about narcissism and borderlines their lack of empathy is a common symptom. What I have learned is that it is all wrapped up in the aspect of arrested development, non integrated emotions and a lack of object permanence. All of the developmental stages from children to adolescence that does not take place because of the effects of their childhood. Our codependence makes us very susceptible to wanting to help that person and fix them.

      • savorydish said

        It is natural for NPDs, but I think there is a duality amongst borderlines. They will break down in tears when they read about suffering in the world, but when it comes to the suffering they have caused… well, that’s a different story. That’s when the wall goes up.

  20. Alexander said

    “No one is to be called an enemy, all are your benefactors and no one does you harm. You have no enemy except yourselves.” St. Francis of Assisi. Tanya is cool and real, Cece was wacked out and savory dish and naples 104 are two fucked up angry ego driven dudes.

    • savorydish said

      Dear Alexander,

      Perhaps you should read St. Francis’ quote again. I am not your enemy.

      If am a “fucked up angry ego driven dude”, then what does that make you? Why are you angry? Perhaps you are reacting with anger because we have shown your relationship with Tanya for what it is- a dysfunctional codependent relationship.

      I am sure Tanya is cool and real, but she also has a severe disorder due to lifelong trauma. You can insult the members of this board all you want, but it only shows your level of denial and maturity.

      Throwing rocks at my window and calling me names won’t make your relationship with Tanya any less dysfunctional.

      Quoting saints won’t make you seem any more holier than us.

      When you are ready to get real, let’s have an honest conversation. Put down your pitchfork and let’s talk about your issues.

    • naples104 said

      I don’t think Alexander has “intel inside” stamped on his forehead. I am anything but angry and ego driven. Obviously, you are a new comer to this blog. I encourage you to read the years worth of posts and then comment intelligently or don’t comment at all.

      • savorydish said

        Don’t take his comments personally. Clearly, he doesn’t like what he reads. He is doing what angry borderlines/codependents do when they don’t like what they hear. They kill the messenger. Discrediting the “angry fucked up” dudes is the best way to invalidate the truth. But regulars know this is a trick that people use to stay in denial. The point of this blog is not to be angry. The point of this blog is to recognize bullshit when you smell it.

      • naples104 said

        no offense taken I feel sorry for people whose only defense is to attack and insult

      • savorydish said

        Think about what Alexander must be going through right now. He married a woman with borderline personality disorder. He is committed himself to a life of dysfunction. He can either acknowledge this decision and accept his own dysfunction or he can lash out at those who would pull him out of delusion. It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge the truth. This is courage Alexander doesn’t have.

        When he speaks of “angry fucked up” dudes, he is projecting. He is judging himself without judging himself. That is what people in denial do.

  21. Alexander said

    Do you two live together, are you misogamists . I think its illegal to have a public hate blog against a minority in this country. Mentally ill borderlines are only 2% of the population. No actually, I am not married to a borderline, what’s the first 3 letters in assumption. I came here to ask a question, but I sure in hell don’t want to have to listen to you two high five each other all day about how you just jerked off all over the borderline-bitches good this time. Yup, 2 angry fucked up dudes is a good title . Pretty soon dudes, it will be just you two writing to each other because who in hell is going to read this one sided hate the bitch stuff.

    • naples104 said

      SD, I recommend that you ban this vile lowlife from this blog. He is everything I detest in a person, disrespectful and vulgar thinking his Andrew Dice Clay humor will resonate here with the regular contributors. I am not hurt or angry, I actually feel sorry for people like him that are so limited in discourse that they have to drop down to lowlife metaphors that are not even funny in the men’s locker room. Does this waste of life realize that there are women that read this blog?

      Alexander, it’s misogynist, I am not sure what misogamists means.

      • savorydish said

        I agree with you, Tom. But I think it serves a purpose to allow disordered people to demonstrate their disordered reaction to the truth.
        If she begins to disrupt the blog, then I will delete her in time.

    • savorydish said

      It seems Alexander is a she… an angry one at that and most likely mentally ill.
      We can assume that because that is how mentally ill people react to the truth.
      We can assume that because she is hiding behind her minority card, instead of owning up to her disordered behavior.
      How dare we attack a disordered woman who happens to be part of a minority!
      But wait, how can we hate all women if we are only criticizing 2% of the population?
      Alex’s logic is flawed. Her rage is clouding her logic.

      • toughmat said

        Im following. Why was it assumed Alex was Tanyas man? Now that Alex is a woman? Strong assuming as a replacement flr asking a question feels ingenuine and manipulative. Why not ask? Maybe i missed something as comments come in at random places but I think not. Alex’s amger speaks for itself.

      • savorydish said

        Because I can always assume when people are lashing out that they are not in the state of mind to be sincere or answer questions.

      • savorydish said

        My interest is in getting to the bottom of the posturing and the bullshit. If I have to fish using assumptions then the end will justify the means. And yes, Alex’s anger does speak for itself.

      • savorydish said

        When she is ready to be genuine and non-manipulative, then I will reciprocate.

      • naples104 said

        when people lash out like he/she did, I have no issue with assuming the worst about them. You can assume one thing for sure about people that exhibit that behavior, they will do it again.

      • savorydish said

        Agreed. You can assume this is repeat behavior. When you criticize someone with abusive tendencies you can assume they will react with defensive rage. They will project and devalue. They will shame you and claim minority status. They will use every dirty trick in the book. If this describes your loved one you can assume there is no hope.

        You may ask Alex a question. But don’t expect an honest answer.

    • Tom said

      Actually Alexander you certainly display the character of those three letters. Moreover, this blog is perfect in describing and depicting the vile attributes of bpd …

      • toughmat said

        Seems as though the bpds were scared off by being exposed? Today marks 6months of no contact. Its hard and i still think about her constantly. i miss her greatly. I know working on myself needs to remain the focus.

      • savorydish said

        Yep. The fear of being revealed is linked to the fear of abandonment. They are one and the same. And how do BPs react to being revealed? Fight or flight. Or fight and then flight. When they do everything they can to persuade you that you’ve got it all wrong, they will lash out at you. When you persist in telling the truth, they will run.

      • Tanya said

        toughmat et al, I’m sorry if I appeared to be one of the “bdps scared off” from my withdrawal from the conversation. Last week I made the move to Manhattan (proud homeowner for the very first time, yay!) so things have been pretty crazy – pardon the word choice.

        I must say, however, having followed the comments here and there, I was hesitant to post again. Forgive me if I’m wrong – I’d hate to come off as playing up victimisation here – but I got the impression that I don’t add much to the conversation. My intention was to shed some light on how BPD affects the way I function in a happy relationship, but a couple of your replies pass some pretty hasty – and, in my opinion, unfair – judgement. My knee-jerk reaction, frankly, was, “if you know so much about me, why bother?” But of course that’s the aforementioned emotions clouding my mind, so I hope I may clear up some of the misunderstanding without coming across as “too BPD” now.

        Firstly, I was surprised by savorydish leap in the assumption that my description of my relationship was somehow linked to a fear of abandonment. I suppose I was exaggerating for comedic effect and I can see how my comment comes across as that of an emotionally unstable person. But fear of abandonment, really? Its also interesting you picked that, of all things, considering that’s one of the 9 criteria my doctor and I, as well as some of those closest to me, have agreed a while back has either nearly or entirely ceased to apply to me. (If anyone cares, I think this is because of my absolute confidence in the love my partner has for me.)

        The other thing that left me scratching my head was the Alexander business, and the notion that (s)he was my partner. Particularly puzzling for me was the fact that my partner’s middle name is Alexander (though I can assure you they’re not the same person, so that’s neither here nor there). Could someone explain this to me?

        That said, I’d like to thank naples for the commendation on my relationship. Too often my assertions of having BPD and being in a happy, stable relationship are met with skepticism, which, albeit valid, is a bit irritating. Thank you for not judging.

  22. Tanya said

    Wow, thank you guys for the warm words. It means a lot. With regard to discussing my relationship – I doubt I can offer objective insight, to be honest, and will pester my SO to join in when he isn’t too busy.
    toughmat, as to your ex, I completely agree with naples. I would never advise anyone (particularly in a situation I know next to nothing about) to return to an unhealthy relationship. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult it must be for you to move on. Perhaps you wouldn’t mind telling me some more? Why did it not work out? What kind of behaviour did you put up with? Was all of the negativity a direct consequence of the disorder? Are you finding it difficult to move on because she left you and you feel discarded? Or do you regret leaving her when it became unbearable and are now selectively recalling only the good times whenever you’re lonely? Why do you say you feel “guilty” when seeing other women?
    Sorry it that’s too personal. I just feel like that would clarify some things for me, and possibly remind you of why it ended in the first place.
    I hate to sound preachy, but I believe everything happens for a reason. Maybe this relationship was meant to teach you something about yourself, help you become a different person, and prepare you for “the one”, who is just around the corner? Maybe the reason you can’t let go is you haven’t learned the lesson yet?

  23. toughmat said

    Tanya
    Thank you for your message and curiosity. I have posted a lot on this site over the years on various comments about things specifically that have happened. My ex was raped, and her father was a drunk who would go off with his friends and leave my ex and her sister behind. The mother, whom my ex still lives with sort of like a friend, is a good woman but a little cold and invested in her job. My ex is an amazing athlete, artist, and has had two exes who cheated on her and beat her. One ex who I met denies beating her but admits to cheating and says that my ex was unfaithful in spite as well. She is sick with autoimmunie disorders and has a ptsd diagnosis. She is kind, a great listener, and very fun to go on trips with. She is easily excited. The problems occured whenever I met my own needs which included a trip out of the country I always wanted to take that was 6 months into the relationship (she broke up with me via email while I was away becasue I didnt call her 1 day as I had no electricity). Another time it was after she asked me if I masterbate and to who and I was stupidely honest about fantasizing about past partners…she left and ripped me an asshole verbally and then expected me to come back after making ultimatems about me being a mental cheater. Nights out with my friends she would do these little tests it felt like and the next day sometimes act like she was too busy to get me to drop everything and prove my love. That kind of stuff. She wouldnt let me seee her on her birthday this year because of I had time to workout and I scheduled a blood test and she said I could have done that any other day and raged basically adn when I showed up to take her to a dinner with gifts she was gone. There is more to that story and ya I kind of messed up but the extreme punishment was incredibly childish. She used the terms ALWAYS and NEVER and sometimes I was the best boyfriend in thw world and all of a sudden I was ALWAYS putting her last behind my male friends. Lots of jealousy about my long term male friends. Again, its very complicated because they saw her in poor light and she knew that. She hated when I would hang out with them, it really threatened her after awhile. My friends can be tough, and after they saw how she could be verbally and emotionally abusive I guess is the word they wanted me out and were not shy about it. I have to go but I hope that gives the idea. Again, great girl, I miss her trememendously, but every now and then it was like she forgot who I was and my intentions…object constancy was lacking like Tom says.

  24. MovingForward85 said

    I see its been a while since anyone commented on here. Toughmatt, you definitely seem addicted to the drama your ex has caused you. You are still in the “fog” . What rational reason could you possibly have to go back to an emotionally abusive partner?. I value tanya, sd and naples104 values and comments highly.

    As for CeCe… all I can say is … WOW. Reading the two sides of your (lets call it explanations) are like oil and water. Unfortunately Cece I feel completely misses the points and views of which SD and Naples104 are saying and by doing this , you have exposed yourself. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that one side speaks completely rationally and Cece quite adverse and worryingly Demeaning.

    I cringed when reading cece’s points because they way she went about it was exactly like my ex did. My story is on SD’S other page where borderliners cut you out of their life.

    Very nasty , always trying to prove a point and seemingly NEVER empathetic. You know you are on the road to recovery when you can take constructive critism as Tanya did. From thousands of stories ive read il be honest and say that I will never date a bpd again. The research and proof is there to show that it is highly unlikely that bpd sufferers will be cured. I did not say they would not, but i stress that it is very unlikely. Cece is an example to see how tough it is, she is aware of her illness which is a major step in itself. Yet look how she responds and still tries to devalue and manipulate.

    Cece lennox November 2 11:18
    And I quote :

    “I pay my shrink to take care of me, not to destroy me, not to vilify me, not to lock me up… he has my best interests at stake as I am his patient”

    I have trouble understanding this. Firstly, it sounds as if your shrink is “pussy footing” around you more than anything. I would think a well qualified therapist would have to break you down to then build you up. Therapy shouldnt be a place to walk in and make you feel like you are at home. Thats where you do the ” hard yards” . You’d want to get to the root of the problem and thats where the most pain and suffering lies. You should be walking out shattered and broken because then youll know you are addressing the correct rooted issues. This therapists seems more like an enabler than a hard headed qualified shrink.

    Ive read every comment here and its easy to split fact from fiction.

    • savorydish said

      Great analysis MF. Clearly CeCe is not making progress which makes me question the value of her shrink. It really shows how difficult it is to deal with BPD. If a shrink can’t change a person like CeCe than what hope does a partner?

      It doesn’t help when borderlines seek help from shrinks that coddle them and tell them what they want to hear. My ex did and it actually made our relationship worse. A good shrink makes you responsible for your behavior. Not a victim.

      • naples104 said

        The only value that a psychologist has when dealing with pathology like Cluster B or co-dependence is to take the person through regression analysis. This is very hard with a BPD because in their mind they are never at fault and are the ultimate victim. The issue is what happened that made you the way you are and until you know that, you will repeat the past endlessly. I am concerned for Matt, but I do understand the decision he made. She has a hold on his mind and he is convinced that life with her is better than life without her. I hope he is right.

        Tom

      • savorydish said

        Excellent point. Also therapy is a process that requires the patient to be honest with the therapist. That is difficult when you have a patient that has manipulated her memories to fit her needs. I think that is why misdiagnosis is so common.

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