Fixing the Borderline

October 22, 2013

A commenter by the name of Fortunate Fool reminds us why BPD is so hard to treat:

Smart move; and I hope all the readers pay heed. I too had my life turned upside down by a woman with borderline disorder.

The fact is the word borderline omits the second part of the diagnosis which is psychosis. And people who suffer from BPD can be every bit as deluded and psychotic as someone with schizophrenia. But it is insidious and hard to detect; sadly even for the persons themselves.

They provoke emotions in themselves and others because that is how they feel alive. It is basically a cancer of the heart (a terminal diagnosis).

Through the delusions and paranoia and even sometimes outright hallucinations, they can slowly eat away at who you are, shaping you to become a monster to their needs. People with less control or empathy, it can basically trigger deep seated human aggression and cruelty, thus the stories/experiences of repeated taunting, rapes, and violence.

Whether you fancy yourself a player or just a “normal guy”; this is not something you can fix!

I am one of those fools who always tries to fix a borderline. Multiple borderlines. So far, I have had a zero success rate.

Unless the borderline is fully aware of their disorder and highly motivated to change (which is rare), you are looking at an uphill battle that you can never win. You can try but you will come out the other end emotionally beat down. When the borderline is done with you, she will have ruined your reputation, your outlook on life and your hope of finding true love.

As the above quote states- delusion, paranoia and outright hallucinations are very real possibilities when dealing with a borderline in denial. A borderline stays firmly in denial to avoid the PAIN of self-realization. If you try to pull them out of denial, they will go kicking and screaming. Once they have clawed your face and kicked you in the crotch, they will run back to self-delusion and lock the door. I have seen this over and over again.

You think you’re doing them a favor by “enlightening” them on their condition. But to them, it feels like you are beating them up. They will accuse you of abusive behavior and harassment, because they truly believe this. The borderline in denial knows only two responses: fight or flight. And if you choose to fight back, they will play the victim and label you the abuser.

It’s easy to walk away if you’ve only been dating for a few weeks. But a year with a borderline feels like a lifetime. It’s an intense whirlwind relationship that simulates love. It’s an addiction. It’s a tractor beam that won’t let go of you.

You will feel like the only way to resolve this situation is to fix the borderline. You will do exhaustive research. You will compile a mountain of evidence. You will formulate thoughtful arguments. But if you think all this will affect a borderline in denial, you are kidding yourself. See the previous posting.

If the borderline doesn’t want to be fixed, then you are just digging yourself further into the hole.

106 Responses to “Fixing the Borderline”

  1. naples104 said

    Fear and hatred is always boiling below the surface and it can be triggered by almost anything and then the psychotic presents it self. There is no escape for the co-dependent other than a clean break no contact and heal. I dated one for more than a year and looking back it was a walk in hell. They are the dark side of any sick mind and they cannot be fixed. No matter how much you try to fix them and point out there illness and the way they flip out, you are the abuser. just get out if you are involved with a borderline and get help. Understand what is wrong with you and why you stayed with one is the key to recovery and to not select a person to fix in the future. That is the key. the time you have been with a BPD is wasted time and you must move past them to heal your self and make sure you never start a relationship with anyone that needs to be fixed, you can only fix yourself. BPD’s are part of the Cluster B personality disorder group and they are all very mentally ill.

    Tom

    • savorydish said

      Flipping out. It’s what borderlines do. They lack the ability to self-soothe. They react to things the way a small child would. Arrested-development.

      Flipping out also scares off people who try to fix them, but it also ruins relationships. Their fear of abandonment creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    • CeCe Lenox said

      Sorry, wanted to ask a question and not sure how to post it.
      I am a borderline woman. 2 days ago I had a total rage-abandonment melt down at the end of a intimate afternoon spent with my part time lover ( he was 40 minutes late, I hadnt seen him in 7 weeks, he talked about old girlfriends, he needed to rush back to work- you know the drill…all those triggers that wound the borderline) I know that this relationship is over and that I am not at all ready to even have one, until I go further with my therapy. My question is, to those of you had borderline lovers, should I explain what triggered the meltdown and that it was more me being a Borderline than anything he did, or simply vanish quietly? I really do not want to do any further damage to him or myself?

      • savorydish said

        I think it would be nice to explain your condition as long as you are not using it as a way to elicit sympathy.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Thank you….I assure you, this will not be about procuring sympathy, its hard for anyone to be emotionally blind sided and feel sympathy over it and actually, Borderlines or least myself, hate sympathy- it rather denotes a lack of control. But I don’t want him to feel like its his fault nor do I want to keep anything going with him which would cause more pain. Thanks again

      • jhan1969 said

        @ CeCe Lenox:

        I would say that if you didn’t want to hurt this guy anymore, leave him alone.

        Then, don’t get into anymore love relationships AT ALL unless you are well into recovery. If you do, you’ll just keep on hurting other people.

        That’s it. The unvarnished truth.

      • Kudos to that jhan1969, no more relationships!

      • CeCe Lenox said

        I could not agree more…the last thing I would want is for a man I care about ( and we borderlines do care by the way, too much) to have to end up on this site rehashing and rehashing and rehashing and rehashing in anger – its like purgatory out here. I received my answer. Vanish and no more relationships Ever,ever, ever..Thank you. Salem Witch trials, it was a wonderful time in history.

      • jhan1969 said

        NOOOO!! I said don’t get into any more relationships until you are ON YOUR WAY TO RECOVERY.

        Get help. Borderlines can have decent relationships if they GET HELP.

      • naples104 said

        Cece, I think you should avoid this guy. Irrespective of your issues with being a BPD, he was not very nice, being late and talking about his old girlfriends is disrespectful. He sound like he is using you for sex. I concur that you may not want to date or be in a relationship until you have gotten further in to your recovery if you are a borderline. I commend you that you recognize that you have an issue and I wish you the best.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Thank you- I believe that’s what triggered the episode, it was the intrinsic feeling of being “”used”” which is perceived abandonment at its finest. Again, thank you for replying to me civilly and intelligently and I appreciate your insight.

    • Tim said

      Hi Tom – Its Tim. I have made a mess of things with my bpd ex…I caved and gave in because her trigger was so odd to me. I asked her to talk a little nicer to me during a period where I was supportive and loving while she was under severe work stress. She lost it over that. I have talked via email to another ex member of your blog and my head is in complete pain…my heart too. I know that you cant force a bpd to accept their condition…I so wanted some magic thing to happen though..some realization on her part that would set the ship right. Im in such deep pain over my inability to solve anything with her….and she has stridently split me black as a thousand midnights….the way you would expect over being cheated on or something like that. I simply asked her to speak a little nicer to me…my actions and loving gestures deserved it. LOL I dont know what purpose I am serving on here…but I have appreciated the friendly ear from all of you.

      Tim

      • naples104 said

        Tim no contact with any borderline is my best advice. All an active borderline can do is give you bad advice. You don’t need to learn how to accommodate a mentally ill person you need to learn why you chose to be with one and why you want to continue with one. You have a right to happiness and to get there you need to fix you and stay away from people that are suffering from an emotional pathology.

  2. Robert said

    I can’t argue with Fortunate Fool at all! This is so true! The clincher though, is when there are revelations of normal behavior. This can keep people hooked for long periods of time if not a lifetime!

    • savorydish said

      Very true.

      One of the benefits of being borderline psychotic is being able to pass as normal. Nobody will ever believe you, because BPD only reveals its symptoms during the course of intimacy. Friends and family will think you are the one who is crazy for concocting such an outrageous claim.

      • savorydish said

        The borderline surrounds themselves with people who will tell her what she wants to hear. And she will push the eject button on anyone who lifts the emerald curtain. So if you do plan on confronting a borderline, be prepared to say good-bye. The closer you get to the truth, the more psychotic she will become.

      • Amen to all I’ve read in these post! I am still being drugged and thrown under the lying bus by people I don’t even know who the hell they are, and others who desided it was ok and fun to pile on I done a great job of staying no contact and not getting to drawn in I think its so stupid and crazy! Man they really don’t have a life!

      • naples104 said

        deceiving them selves and being the victim is what they do. Life has screwed them and they may from time to time say that they think they need help, but then the threats of suicide come, “I am going to run away, no one loves me, I am bad and everyone will be better off with out me…” then our co-dependence kicks in and we try to save them again and again, we have been duped by the masters of mental illness. When they are done getting you to feel badly for them they turn on the flame thrower and scorch you with devaluation and then discard you. If you are in a relationship that has these sick and terminal symptoms, get out and get help or slowly lose your self respect and your sanity.

        Tom

  3. I saw where the poster posted that, when the BPD is aware of their disorder, well even when that’s the case it makes no difference, in my case she sneakily told in a passing statement that she had a disorder that only 2% of the population has. Not another word out of her except for out the blue one day about 5 months into our rump or what ever you wanna call it, she told me that I wanted to change her. If I recall correctly I never asked her to change. When I would see some dumb shit I would ask a lot of questions that would lead to moments of fit throwing by her.
    In other words she is a master a fooling those around her . And she is totally aware of her disorder and what she is doing to people. She just doesn’t care. Long as her narcissistic supply was being met! She evil and her core group is evil as well!

    • savorydish said

      Yes, even someone who is aware of their disorder will deceive themselves and others into believing they are fine.

      • toughmat said

        I am 4 months and 10 days no contact. It is still hard and I miss her tremendously. I feel no ill will towards her. Maybe it is Euphoric Recall getting the best of me, but I have also just framed things as her being very sensitive and scared. I could have done a better job at calming those fears in some instances, but I have fears of my own. I have issues with handling someone being upset at me, namely a woman I love. Adequacy issues on my end.

        I remember the hurtful things she said, but they dont carry much weight now. I still hate the thought of her with another man, but that is something I have matured with and I realize that is inevitable if i am choosing to be single.

        I still read this blog often, and I wonder why I dont despise my ex and dont have quite the feeling of escaping her “drama, toxicity, control,” etc. I am sure it is because my life on its own has pain and confusion which is the main reason I am staying single…to become strong on my own.

        I still wonder if she was borderline after all. The cheating never happened, the lying was minimal at most from her, I just think she was incredibly insecure and had some controlling views on the way relationships should be. I am just now reminding myself of how frustrating her black and white “always” and “never” thinking was. Again, is that bpd?

        I am trying to be gentle with myself, but also push myself to become a better man. For awhile I was medicating with food, sports, booze, and now I am slowly coming out of that and into a driven life. I still have my slip ups.

        I just wanted to give an update because you guys are the only ones who can remotely get it in my life. Everyone else has shut down the idea of me talking about it and if I told them all of my dream of possibly one day re-uniting with her they, like im sure most of you, would think im nuts. I know that day is not close at least because the same issues would surface as 4 months and more is not enough time for either of us to make substantial change.

        If you have any hypothesis on why I havent demonized my ex, or anything else, Id love to hear. I used to fantasize about being free and single, and I am now. Yet, I still yearn for her.

        Hope everyone is doing well.

      • As you move through your new found freedom, and when you start to recall a the feelings of grandor, all the porn style sex and stuff from what your mind and heart thought was the girl of your dreams! Each time you think of running back remember this phase “Yesterday Was Just a Lie”. That’s all it was sir just one big fake pathological lie! When it comes to them is a big bullshit game to get them through their skunk life!

      • naples104 said

        Matt, we all had fun with our BPD’s other wise we could not have stayed, but life was hell most of the time. Do you want to bring children into that world, have them be like her, live with highs and lows of her mental illness, congrats on being free from her. You will heal Matt but also learn not to be with one again. You did a hard thing, you broke away from co-dependence and mental illness. That is the first step in being a free person and having a happy life.

        Tom

      • I just want to say, that I never thought I would be stalked, set up on false dates so these fake ass people could find out my address and where abouts, Amy F don’t know this but we know you’re the ring leader, now Amy F is a coo-coo who
        mad cause I didn’t want her ass, and I bailed on her, after I got true info out of her from the guy my BPD ex was fucking before me! This bull mastiff mad about 50 dollars so she’s desided to try in make my life a living hell, we know its you you hen! LOL! Go stick your head in a wheel barrel of cement! Its over I’ve uncovered the truth so go away you little
        brat! Every time you Jennifer, the spinish log into my Facebook, my email, all my stuff we know it, I’ve jus t been told to hold my peace! We know about Istanbul, and Venezuela as well all of it!

        To people here be careful with sites like Match.com its crawling with crazy,” Love can damage your health”

      • naples104 said

        Tim, if she is a borderline you are facing a life of this. It is time to let go and get help from a therapist that specializes in Cluster B personality disorders. She is venting her life long anger about abandonment and abuse on you and that will never change. Get healthy and research what drives you to be with a borderline. You can only fix you and she is looking to replay the events in her child hood that caused the arrested development. I would be surprised if physical or sexual abuse was not involved. The mind drives you to the place in your past that you are most familiar with and if she was abused and loved and the emotions were interchangeable she will treat you and everyone she is close to that way. BPD’s have no “object permanence”, research that term. Nothing has value long term and unfortunately you are just another object to love and hate at the same time. As the relationship matures the hate becomes more intense and the love less. Tim, save you and get out for good. All the best.

        Tom

  4. zofianina said

    Just wondering: almost everything you write could also be applicable to Aspergirls… so how do you know that your exes actually are Borderlines? I myself was diagnosed with Borderline, but it turned out to be a bigger problem, namely Asperger’s. So I am curious to know what the differences are. (Sorry for my mistakes in English, I am still learning your language.)

    • savorydish said

      Asperger’s is a form of autism. Typically people with Asp are limited in their emotional response to stimuli. Whereas people with BPD are hyper-reactive and emotionally unstable. But that is about the extent of my knowledge. Maybe you can shed more light.

      • naples104 said

        My son is autistic and I was involved with a borderline, they are not even close, one is a mental illness that affects primarily women because of sexual abuse (most of the time), the other is a developmental delay that is caused by sensory disorders and a lack of awareness on social queuing. Asperger’s patients are not mentally ill but can become antisocial because they have been treated badly in society. BPD is a Cluster B personality disorder, a sub set of Bi Polar and yes Aspergers patients can become emotionally disturbed but not because their brain works differently from a developmental issue and a stimulus issue. One has nothing to do with the other.

        Tom

      • savorydish said

        Thank you for the clarification. I was puzzled as to how one could be diagnosed with both. They do seem like polar opposites.

  5. toughmat said

    One thing that really confuses me, is that my ex has this incredible athlete exterior with strong muscles. She is in great shape and very capable, yet physically sick as well with lupus and RA. She has a ptsd diagnosis. She is the Hero and the victim all in one. Strong, independent, a fighter, yet damaged from her brutal past. Part of my euphoric recall as Tom calls it, is remembering how charming, strong, and excited about life she was. She was childish in the bpd sense (although no tantrums, mostly withdrawal and mini tests), and child-like, but child-like in a way that I had a lot of fun with at times.

  6. Tim said

    I am 12 days into the fog after a vitriolic breakup with my bpd ex girlfriend. She split me black 2 days after telling me that our problems were not enough to let go of me..ever, and she repeatedly called me the love of her life. I am now faced with anger from her on an unequaled scale, and responses to texts I send that are full of hatred and denial. On the 7th of this month she spent the night and accepted several well thought out birthday gifts from me, after which I drove her to a 5k she was running in and cheered for her. Examples of my support for her, in every catergory were daily, and yet I am faced with this white hot anger from her. I understand fully what is happening, but as Im sure you all can attest to, it doesnt make it easier to take when its happening to you. Thank you for all your work on this blog, and to everyone who writes in. The new perspectives truly help.

    • CeCe Lenox said

      As borderline, I would like to say she is trying to convince herself that you are not worthy because she crossed into that terrorizing place deep within her where if she falls in love, if she starts to become dependent on you for validation , if she starts to trust you than she can no longer breathe. She is in a place of utter dark terror and its because she has fallen in love with you. It truly the most horrific place. Her hot white anger is at herself for having allowed you to get so close. Her hot white anger is coming from a child deep deep within her that is probably 3 years old and she is scared, she is so scared to the point where her brain is telling her she will die ( cease to exist) if she assigns you this much importance. its primal, its primitive- this sounds so juvenile and so lame, but its not personal with the exception that she fell in love and like all 3 year olds, hasn’t the skills to cope or the where the all to know why

      • savorydish said

        Thank you for this.

      • Tim said

        Thank you so much for the kind helpful thoughts. I allowed her back into my life during an unfortunate moment of vulnerability on my part during this last weekend. We experienced …at the end of a really nice day…a culmination of all her frustrations that led to one core concept. I conducted myself during a particular discussion in a way that I felt was respectful and considerate of her feelings…she saw the exact same thing as me being heartless..uncaring and completely dismissive of her feelings. I realized that in order to stop the fights…I would have to abandon my own identity and become her in a sense. Even the smallest most minute differences of opinion cause major blowups…and she was irate that I would not recite a montra about me being a cruel uncaring bastard who repents totally for his actions…when in every way…I was kind and respectful. I set a boundary and I would appreciate your thoughts on whether that was the right thing to do. I love her but I cant do this…its destroying me.

      • naples104 said

        Tim, you have no future with a borderline, I went back several times and every time the horror worsened, devaluation, discarding and placing blame is what they do so well and they know they are in your mind in an addictive way. The only way is a clean break and n contact. Get yourself help and realize all she brings to your life is misery and despair. Get out now and save your sanity. It may take you a year to put this nightmare where it belongs. Read books on codependence and learn why you go back to her and then set the proper boundaries eliminating her from your life 100%. There can be no going back, no friendship, no contact, flus her and get help is the only way you can have a life.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        I am going to reply to Tim as a borderline and because I see him needing some answers more than tough it out, which of course may be his best answer in the end. How long have you been with her? I assume, you are way past her placing you on that shiny pedestal stage. Think hard, what was the instant that you “”betrayed her”” and I use that term lightly. We all have a 3 year old little girl as our core, something you did along the way showed that little girl you could not be trusted in taking care of her. It could be you flirted with someone, you became cool instead of blazing hot etc. So, red flags have already gone up around you because this woman has fallen in love with you – if she hadn’t, you would not be experiencing any of this. Boundaries are essential, but too many boundaries and the borderline cheats or or vilifies you..too little and she thinks she can eat you alive and feels that you deserve to be part of her Donner Party. Yes, you will probably have to leave her, but if you don’t do it correctly she will make your life miserable. Give her lots of space, its this closeness that is driving all her red flags. In giving her this space, you will both have a chance to get use to not being with each other.I disagree, Borderlines can have very long term relationships and marriages, but it may not be worth the effort. If a borderline has lost her “”respect”” for you, if you have totally fallen off her pedestal, it is time to move on. If you are leaving and don’t want a hurricane of emotions and reactions to follow you for months and months- I would always, always tell her that you care for her. YOU are dealing with a child that has in some part been abandoned and destroyed by that abandonment- she will always react like a child. I am rushing with this, but its so complex and I think vanishing though an effective option, leaves men out here writing and writing,and leaves the Borderline volatile and unpredicatible.
        I think leaving her in stages- like gently closing each door in a mansion as you walk out, or shutting the lights quietly as a small child falls alseep will work for both of you…

      • Tim said

        Thank you truly and sincerely for your advice. I appreciate your help very much. My ex and I were together for almost 3 years. During that time we must have broken up 8 or 10 times. It was always one basic concept that did it. She would attach cancerous heartless motivations to my actions…saying I was mean or heartless or dismissive of her…when I would see what happened or what I did as very benign…( i got stuck in traffic after picking up flowers…) she would see that as blatant disrespect. The more it happened…the more vicious she became…making me out to be a monster for the slightest little thing. This last weekend..I saw her and after a wonderful day, she said I was dismissive of her feelings and disrespectful because I asked for a little time to think about my answer to a very heavy relationship question she asked.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Got it Tim- been there , done that. And are her actions and accusations being used to place distance between you and she? Yes. Does she realize she is doing this-NO. She really, really in her mind ( in our minds we Believe with a capital B) that you are making all these little errors because you don’t care enough about us. We are hyper-vigilant to any slight, any nuance that you are going to leave us…because underneath it all, somewhere in our little girl self, someone did either leave us or abuse us or send a very clear message that We were not important enough to love. This kind of searching for a reason to escape you, is only after something very shattering and major that you did that smacked you off her pedestal ( its usually flirting, or blowing off a date , its usually something that makes us feel very, very small and ugly) These actions are also giving her a bit of control, a bit of relief from the high anxiety that being in love with you is causing her 24/7.
        Did you ever read or see the movie The Help? in it, the little girl is told by her nanny 3 things “” “YOu are kind, you are smart and you are important””…I get chills just typing that, because that’s what you borderline does not feel like, ever…I think you two have too many battle scars to start over and make it right , boundaries were not set by you in the beginning..she loves you but doesn’t trust you and each and everyone of these attacks is a mini test.
        Back away gently and please try to be loving when you do it…she wont bite your head off that way and you wont feel 2 years from now that you did the wrong thing.. She is 3 afterall, 3 years olds need love, crave love, have to have love to survive, but do they really, really love back?? No. Tell her you care for her and respect her ( respect is big here) and you know she needs time to heal and move on from you , and you will check back in in a few months…she will calm down, you will calm down- she wont feel backed into those dark woods waitig and you can feel good about yourself…and in a few months, it will be Ok…she will be ok and more importantly you will be ok, and you wont even need to think about checking in…

      • Tim said

        The help and advice your note provided is so appreciated. You spoke of me doing something that knocked me off her pedestal….what could that have possibly been? Is a bad argument enough…I NEVER CHEATED! I was totally faithful to her. I just dont understand what the catalyst could have been to put me in such a constant field of suspicion with her. You are right…it was truly like she didnt trust me…and I never could understand why. Texting constantly was a big thing with her. There were times when my day didnt allow as much texting as she would have liked…and she would accuse me of putting her last. That was a big thing between us. I just am really stumped on this one. She keeps coming back. This last breakup was horrific. Is there a sign that I might have witnessed that this will be the last hoover? If she is so upset and untrusting of me…why does she keep coming back….I dont get it. My mom says its because she “needs” me…for what? Thank you again for everything!

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Object constancy…we really cant feel you unless you are right in front of us, that scares us…do you really exist, can we trust you if we aren’t even certain you exist? I use to get furious when my beloved didn’t answer my texts- she feels it as “perceived abandonment””…doesn’t make it right or easy for you, but that’s why

      • Tim said

        Your advice made so much sense to me. One again I truly appreciate what you said. I think it will really help me as I work through this.

      • Tim said

        I appreciate your advice more than you know. It truly helps to see things from all perspectives. I’m more mixed up about this woman than I thought and a common thread I see in all replies I’m getting is the no contact. I dont wish her any ill will…I just want her to be happy…I want to be happy too. Thank you again.

      • Tim said

        I just wish I could understand why the only way the fight would have stopped is for me to say I was heartless..cruel..etc. Why does she need that in order to feel better. I was anything BUT that, and no matter how much I explained my view…she came back to the fact that she was hurt because I wouldnt verbally acknowledge that I was mean….I wasnt!

      • naples104 said

        Tim, its the world they live in emotionally, their pain is so deep and all they have is primitive, childlike defense available. Read about arrested development. They stopped developing as a child from an emotional standpoint and they can only react and interact in a relationship as a child. Think of it this way, you are dating a 10 year old in an adult body. That is likely her emotional level of development. Get help Tim and say good bye to her in your mind and do things for you to realize that you don’t need her to have a happy life. Right now you are having euphoric recall, suffering from the aftermath of the fight that you had and remembering all the good times. Think carefully, were are most of the good memories that you had with her sexual? That is the best weapon they have. Sex should be a loving act between two mature adults that love one another, not a living porn experience which is what sex with most borderlines is like.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        I wanted to comment on a statement Tom said that Borderlines know you are addicted to us. I don’t think so, if we did we might just calm down and feel a bit in control, no borderlines don’t think you even SEE us, let alone that we have you addicted to us. Falling in love is like being 3 and being left out overnight in the dark and cold and not sure if anyone will really care enough to find you..you are afraid, you are angry, you become self reliant, you are terrorized and when you are rescued the next morning, you are relieved but you vow never to get taken on a walk in the woods again, don’t ever trust anyone who might leave you in terror like this again and you are furious because where in hell was that rescue party all night, why didn’t anyone care enough to find you…and that’s the core- right there. I appreciate everyone on this site telling you Tim, what your borderline might be feeling, I am telling you What she is feeling as I am one…And here is the piece de resistance…the only men we can stay in long term relationships with are never,ever co-dependents- they begin to make us itch like wool, they begin to irritate us because they don’t set enough boundaries- we usually can make it with a strong, loving yet emotionally distant man who never leaves us but doesn’t invade us either. I am laughing about the porn sex..its exactly right on, because you see Borderlines lose themselves in this kind of disconnected sex, the sex without boundaries is probably the only time we feel free and come on, you guys tell us you love that about us..cant have it both ways- smile…but honestly, I think unless you want to stay stuck for a year or more by doing this cold turkey vanishing act, you should consider gently, gently backing out of the proverbial room until neither you nor she realizes you closed the door….otherwise she will truly yank you back it if she feels left alone, out there in the woods again and her 3 year old self will howl at the moon to vilify you and you will underneath it all, feel lousy…back out of “”her room slowly” dont give her any heads up until she doesn’t even care you have left and you will be disconnected enough not to have to get on these blogs for years to come…you will understand you had a borderline in your life and everything that means, you wont have to hate that time or her or yourself…you will use it as learning experience…

      • savorydish said

        I agree. If they thought they actually had a hold on you, they wouldn’t fear abandonment. But that doesn’t stop them from trying.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Im sorry- trying what? To fall in love or to try to get men addicted?
        borderlines, despite popular opinion, are human. They do want to fall in love , but of course we all know its a painful, quite often impossible process. Do Borderlines want to have men addicted to them? Gosh, not at all..that would feel like engulfment, that would suck the breathe out us and we have such a hard time gulping oxygen as it is. Yes the borderline wants to love and be loved, we just didn’t come with the right owner’s manual to do that…but we really, really don’t think we even have what it takes to be the object of addiction.

      • naples104 said

        I have been reading all the responses to my post. The question is, with all due respect to BPD’s is, why would you want all the drama of mental illness in your life. I have been free from this for 2 years and met a wonderful woman that is not a cluster B sufferer and we have an unbelievable bond and relationship. Looking back after a year of intensive therapy to find out why I have been attracted to mentally ill people, I am happy and a new man. My advice to those that suffer from this horrible mental illness is work really hard to get mentally healthy and if you are with a BPD, get help also and find out why. No one can be happy being mentally ill or being with someone that is mentally ill.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        and he lived happily ever after….its a nice fairy tale ending- I like it.

      • Tim said

        Gawd that was a great note from you. I read it over about three times. You have an amazing gift for using words to paint a real heartfelt picture. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me…they really help. Your comment about her feeling left in the woods baffles me so much…I have so much I need to understand about that. I understood early on that she needed constant reminders of my affection. I showered her with praise and statements of true admiration all the time…told her how proud I was every day of her strength and determination in a super demanding job. Sent just because flowers frequently. When money was tight I bought her groceries. I showered her with heartfelt love…always…and it inevitably would blow up over not texting enough…or her not liking the way I said something…or I set my phone face down by accident on the desk…so she thought I was cheating on her. Thats what greeted me all the time…and I would get these attacks after huge sincere loving gestures I made to her. I guess I really havent gained enough understanding of how you can see love like that for anything but what it is. I have so much still to learn…realizing that more and more as I sit here and type this. Thank you again…amazing note from you!

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Tim, thanks- these posts are helping me as well, So I am reading this and I find myself not breathing as I should, your litany of all you did for her feels suffocating to me. This would be too much attention for a borderline to process, it would feel inauthentic, I am feeling your ex right now and I don’t think she can even accept any of these gestures or words on a core level. Words are the world’s swords of manipulation,, always has been- so she would be suspect of too much praise. In theory, love the flower for no reason, but done too often, she cant see past the why?? Oh the other woman, she looms for the borderline- she is always present, she has come for something the borderline needs, her man and she will watch for this other woman all day and night. Its feeling like there are no right answers right? From my own experience I was always at my best with a strong man who set firm boundaries, was predictable in nature ( too much praise, too much affection, too much anything would make me panic or retreat- a man who stood his ground with me, but didn’t budge and hide under the blankets everytime I spoke- worked. Borderlines are drawn to a certain unavailability in men- just a slight distance soothes us, we love, love to cross over for affection and sex , but we need you to remain in the middle of the room..not at the door,and certainly not at our heels. Even writing this makes me see, its most likely not worth the effort..but what I want to scream, yes scream out here is borderlines do love, very much and they don’t do this to BECOME your addiction, Good God, who would become addicted to a 3 year old- no one and we know it. We do it because we don’t know how else to get from sunrise to midnight without being hurt again

      • naples104 said

        Excellent Cece, but read between the lines of what you wrote, the relationship you say you can be successful in is full of boundaries that require the man to be distant and aloof, most mentally healthy men are not like that. they want to love protect and shower their lover with affection and love, you are looking for a cold detached man. I hope you heal and become mentally healthy, I say that meaning no insult or malice.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        I know, but again…we are here, like or not the Borderline is here and just like all those lovely Bronte books, there are Heathcliffs out there.for US .not everyone has to be the Prince and Cinderella, if two emotionally distant people find peace and love and create a wonderful life in each other, why do we have to be like you and yours? We don’t…its when we cross over the veil into each others worlds that things are not all gossamer and light. Im not saying Tim is this kind of person, I am taking the personal anxiety and persecution of self he feels off himself. There are partners for borderlines, men who enjoy everything we bring to the table… not all men need 100% of a persona to feel whole. I clearly cannot take offense over anything that is written here. Its like trying to translate German into French, so much gets lost in the languages of the borderline and the non. There are men who love us, if they are distant or emotionally damaged or not exactly like you, so be it- not everyone needs what you deem as a “”healthy”” relationship. I am struck that the borderline is suppose to be so black and white and I see no gray In any ones’s wardrobe out here..not even a gray tie or ascot..but I do feel the pain of everyone. It would be quite medieval to lock all the borderline women up in a tower and never, ever think that they too don’t have their knights in shinng armor that do stay and do love us- are they healthy men? who knows, but they do have a lot of gray in their closet and for that we adore them

      • Tim said

        I’m processing this. I truly do see what you are saying. In a way then, this is partly my fault. I didnt approach her the way she must have needed…is that what you are saying? I got a text from her at 11 last night…I didnt read it. I simply wrote back and said I love you but you are free now. I added that I will check in a few months to make sure she is ok. Was that a good response in your opinion? If I am not what she could be happy with…why does she keep contacting me after such a horrid breakup? That is a concept I really need to clarify. Thank you again for all your help…I’m very grateful.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        PERFECT !!! that is so perfect. You told her she was loved and set her free. Love it, you are so free now. You don’t have to feel the chains of not getting it right. You have not been added to the litany of men who she feels have abused her. Now she can breathe and so can you…simply perfect

      • naples104 said

        Cece, Tim is in extreme emotional pain as is Matt and most borderline victims have to experience that, nothing is perfect about what they are going through. They is tortured by the experience and cannot understand the ice water emotions of a BPD when they split and black you out. That is far from perfection on any level

        Tom

      • Tim said

        I am truly in tears right now. Talking to all of you has provided me some much needed clarity and relief. I feel safe opening up here.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        with a smile and a hug to Tim, because you are going to be fine..with or without Dr. Tom’s advice- you will use this experience to become a fuller human being….I see if I say or use a word from the English language , Tom is going to take issue. Now, I could write in French, but I sense something going on in these posts that is coming down to Tom needing to be the authority. Unless you all want to drive a stake thru the borderline while she is in her midnight casket, hearing from US, could have been useful- we are only confusing Tim at this point and as Tom seems to want to be the doctor on duty today- I bid adieu. Tim, you will be fine. Remember that. Your ex on the other hand will have a more twisted, more tortured journey, she will spend more lonely nights in the woods waiting for her rescue team to show up. No body says to God on the way down, “”Oh yeah- chose me to be the borderline”” but some of us end up here as one…we do the best we can just like you do., and I apologize for all of us today…and I back out of the room slowly and gently and let Dr. Tom take over..
        Tim- if you ever want to write , I am at logforest@outlook.com Peace

      • naples104 said

        sadly, Cece is splitting and blacking as borderlines do and insulting anyone that may pull the curtain back on their sick minds, yes Cece, if you are a borderline you have a serious mental illness. They are called borderlines because they are borderline psychotic and are not capable of a healthy relationship. You can shift blame which is what BPD’s do so well and walk away and say it’s them not me, I can love but I choose not to is what they convince themselves of. I have learned much and I will spread that knowledge here and everywhere I can to try to help the victims of being with borderlines. Take note of how quickly Cece is throwing in the towel when challenged with proven psychology that is irrefutable.

        Tim you will be fine as will Matt as you both learn more about yourselves and try to be a perfectly happy person which can never happen if you spend your life with a mentally ill person. A BPD has no conception of the pain they cause because they cannot accept blame and recognize that they are very sick. It is clear that Cece is smart and educated but she also looking to convince that being mentally ill is ok and we should all accept that mental illness as a personality as opposed to a person that is emotionally dangerous and toxic. None of this meant as insulting, but you seem incapable of accepting the reality of your life situation

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Yes, I am throwing in the towel, this “”mentally ill”””person actually has a profession..( other than ruining people’s lives by being a borderline) you know, a little bit of humor once in awhile, isn’t such a bad thing- even out here, even in the trenches people did smile and laugh and joke and make light of things.
        …and its so easy for you to use this psych lingo, every time someone has a thought or a comment. that isn’t your own,..oh there she is again, splitting..- it feels rather like when men say “”oh she is on the rag””, its just such a handy way to Silence a voice.I have lots of thoughts about you Tom, are they insulting? no-, will they effect your 100% loving and wonderful relationship and life ? No….think of me as that underpaid, over worked public defender up against the state .- I am out here up against an entire forum of borderline haters, just trying to shed a bit of light.someone has to defend the other people , its called democracy…and no, I am throwing in the towel because as Basil Fawlty said to Sybil””We could die having this coversation””. Tim will probably be married and have a family of 12 by the time we are finished here,Tom….its simply going no where…is taking back my time to do other things, “”splitting””? Well, then God, yes- let me split and get back to the my profession aka work..Remember Tom, nothing is all black and white..not the world, not romance, not mental illness,- nothing and when we play God and condemn , its simply stops being interesting or productive to me or anyone else out here

      • naples104 said

        Cece, you have stated my points more eloquently than I ever could. You have made this all about you. The fact that you call freud’s thoughts “psycho lingo” says that you embrace nothing of the study of the mind from one of the smartest scholars of the mind in history. I wish you well cece, please get help and I hope you find peace and happiness which seems to be out of your grasp. I too am a professional that owns a business and works every day. However, I take time to try to pass along what I have learned about my self and about mental illness.

        Tom

      • Tim said

        Following up…I loved your description about backing out of the room slowly…but how do I do that if she has taken the latest blow up…did you see the details?….and sworn off me for good…she was the one starting NC…what do I do now if I like your suggestion about backing out of the room slowly. Whats my next step?

      • CeCe Lenox said

        She slammed the door, packed her little overnight bag and ran into the proverbial woods. She is angry, but mostly she is scared to her core that she feels so much for you and of course, she cant trust that because somewhere a long time ago, when she should have been loved and nurtured she was not. So , let her stay in the woods for a while, its where she Thinks ( the operative here, is thinks) she wants to be. She has panicked and run. Leave her totally alone- this will not be easy for her and my heart breaks a bit for her ( sorry, guys- I am a borderline, I feel this woman’s emotions all the time) Think of it as sending your child to Outward Bound, its a choice she made,its a choice you are going to honor- now let her learn some survival tactics out there without you, let her breathe., let her breathe…say this, “”It is my choice to do nothing””..remember, its your choice- not hers , to do nothing. That takes the anxiety off you for a bit. Don’t keep reaching out, let her go into hiding….make that YOur choice…

      • naples104 said

        Tim, Cece refers to object consistency, its object permanency that is the issue, BPD’s can split and black you out like you don’t exist and then invite you back into there world when and if they see fit. Read, read, read about Cluster B personality disorders, object permanency, splitting and blacking and read about the attachment theory as it relates to the relationship that you had with your same sex parent at an early age. That relationship will form and direct how you pick and interact with your opposite sex relationships on a romantic and social level. That one psychological concept is what set me free. I loved my father but we had issues I had buried for years and I was playing out that relationship I wanted so badly as a child in my adult life. That concept and understanding it may be key to your recovery. Stay away from that woman, she is toxic for you and you will just repeat the past with her.

        Tom

      • Tim said

        I feel that answer to my soul. You are absolutely right. Thank you.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Tim, I am leaving this site as Tom seems to be trying to establish some sort of dr./patient thing with you and I am really just trying to tell you what its like to BE the borderline. If you want to email me directly- its logforest@outlook.com Good luck with everything..we cant all live in little perfect plastic bags with perfectly 100 healthy, loving people always now can we? Life is for learning- its not for perfection, its not to blame others or battle to see who has the correct answer- its to live and understand and help and grow hopefully at the end of the day to be a person with a huge soul who has lived.If this borderline is not for you, so be it. Don’t spend the rest of your life on sites rehashing your hurts. Are all of us bordelines mentally ill, toxic beasts ? Not at all- sometimes I think people should be so wonderful as us, but other days, just like you and we hurt, we hurt others,and for most of us we really, really do try to get it right…..

      • naples104 said

        this is what I am talking about with BPD’s. I am not playing doctor, but I have made a huge effort to learn why I made the choices I did in my life and what I have discovered along the way. With all due respect to you Cece, you want to justify the actions of a borderline and teach us how to love someone that is mentally ill. The real solution is for mentally ill people to get help, the borderline and the codependent and set good mental health as a goal never to be abandoned. You seem to want to stay as a borderline and provide an instruction manual of why and how the victims of BPD’s have culpability in the emotionally destructive behavior of the unhealthy minds that need this site. The only fix is to get help and understand what has happened in our past and deal with those wounds.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        No, if I wanted to stay in my “”thing”” I certainly would not be out here. No one has to love us…in fact that scares us. I think by telling Tim and everyone else that they fell in love with a mentally ill nut case it makes them feel like THEY did something wrong, it leaves them “”stuck”” in this place where you all seem to be. What I was trying to do was breathe life into this corpse you all keep on life support. I thought if Tim could see what a borderline is thinking, he would say “”Oh , really so that’s how she thinks and its not so much about me, and its not my fault and no, I cannot be what she needs”” and move on in a healthy loving manner. I think the labels of toxic, mentally ill, sick etc, certainly do not hurt the borderline ( there isn’t anything anyone can say about us we don’t feel 1000 times deeper) I think it makes the person leaving the relationship feel worse than they already do…everyone out here fell in love with a borderline, why wouldn’t you want a manual of who that person is? You put people in quick sand when they are not given the information to understand. You don’t want anybody to understand us, and please its not about getting people to become addicted to us or fall in love with us, it was about telling Tim it happens, she probably is not right for him, but here is how she is thinking…I think that helps. Tom, you proclaim you have found 100% perfection, 100% morphing in affection and healthy normal sex ( whatever that is) and you are 100% healed and in a 100% wonderful relationship…well, life isn’t like that for most. We love, we lose, we love again….its this drawing lines out here … To be honest, I don’t want what you people want. I like my highs and lows and my life, sometimes its lonely, sometimes it not….I was here to tell Tim what goes on in a borderline mind, which is something, you could not do- not really, not authentically….Your disorder seems you want to “”fix “”, we all have them….I suggest everyone gets on the site today which is written exclusively by borderlines, it will be like a co-ed exchange day….things are not black and white to a borderline, gray actually, is the new black….and when you tell me I like being a borderline and I don’t want to change, its rather like declaring you are white and all black people should want to be our or visa versa…

      • naples104 said

        this is what you don’t grasp, its not about the borderline, and yes you are right, Tim, Matt, me and everyone else that is on here has an issue and they need to understand that they need to fix themselves and they are sick in a different way. If they are not sick, they would have run in the other direction from the insanity of the relationship they were in. Borderlines are masters at telling everyone why we have to love and accept them they way they are and sadly you are wrong. No mentally healthy person wants to be involved with someone that mentally ill. I am not professing that I am 100% anything, I am professing that I want 100% happiness and that can never be with a mentally ill person or me suffering from mental illness. The difference between us is that I admit that I have issues and I will not accept those issues. I want to be different from the person that choose 3 mentally ill partners which I will not do again. I do have a happy loving relationship with a woman that does not suffer from any pathology and she knows all about my challenges. I am able to be successful in that relationship because I have challenged myself and admitted that I have issues relating to the way I was raised and the relationship I had with my parents. The way we all were raised is at the core of all personality disorders, Cluster B which is where BPD’s fall are a huge challenge for most therapists and most will tell you that someone that suffers from a Cluster B disorder most often cannot be treated unless treated very early in life. Sorry Cece if I seem harsh, but you like all other people suffering from personality disorders see the world as a reflection from a mirror, what you see first and almost exclusively is yourself and how everything has affected you and why everyone else should understand and accept you the way you are and love and accept everyone that suffers as you suffer, I am sorry Cece, most cannot do that and have a happy, productive meaningful life.

        Tom

      • savorydish said

        There is room here for both of you. This site works best when people from both sides share insights.
        SD

      • naples104 said

        an open mind is required if you want to live your life with good mental health, I welcome any and comments, I am not the doctor on duty as Cece is purporting, just a man that has been through hell three times and learned that when going through hell, go fast and don’t go back. I hope some of the readers here benefit from the three years that I have been studying personality disorders and why codependents and Cluster B sufferers are like magnets and metal, drawn to one another. I think I have broken the cycle for me and I try to live a mentally healthy life and do what I can for me first and then be selfless with those that I love. I have mentioned this book before and I hope some have read it, the three agreements, a great quick read on how to think better and live happy.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        I leave you all with one thought…its very, very risky whats going on here. People with out appropriate knowledge who has read a few books giving emotionally scarred people advice , treating every borderline as if they should be put in concentration camps,until the war for 100% perfect romance is won- this type of mob mentality will not save anyone or help anyone- reading a few books, and passing yourself off as an authority on a subject is dangerous and quite frankly , I see more ego than altruism in many of these posts.
        I had no agenda, I came here with a question of my own…

      • naples104 said

        Cece, more defensive comments from you, if you read a year’s worth of this blog, you will see that all of us that have emerged from the fog of being with a mentally ill person have said that we are far from experts and offer only what has helped each one of individually. You are new to these people that have been on here suffering for a year or more, Matt has been tortured for a year and finally made the break from the insanity of the relationship that he was in. Tim is embarking on the journey and we all hope he makes it to a place of happiness and peace. Your dismissal of anything contrary to your assertions, “borderlines are ok people and just need to be understood” is what is frightening. It is informative to hear what you have to say for me, it keeps me as far from borderlines as I can possibly get. The longer a person suffers from BPD the more destructive they get to themselves and others. I suggest that you read a few books and use that impressive brain to help your self and stop telling everyone that all that is needed is a little understanding. I loved your commentary that we all love and lose and then go on to love again. That is what mentally unhealthy people do. Most of us want a life time relationship to help, love and share all of the challenges of life and all the rewards of life. I don’t want to love, lose and love again. I tried that and it was hell and offering that all you have to do is understand the mentally ill mind and all will be ok is offering hell over and over again.

        Tom

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Shhhhj . Be well., stop writing me
        & get back to these people who need you ..,I never said Understand me & love me -.. I said .. understand who ” she ” was and love yourself Again
        & again .. You are not their
        Doctor – you are their friend – take off your white coat & get back in there & help .., I had no right here as you pointed out .. – no new people of a different color need move into the neighborhood –

      • naples104 said

        again , no white coat here, just the memories recounted of a trip to hell and back and the personal knowledge that I have gathered along the way. No one is saying that you don’t have a right to be here, but when you defend the borderline behavior and or justify it, plan on a response that does not agree with your hypothesis. The problem with chatting with someone that thinks they are living a fulfilling life as a BPD is that you don’t look back at the wreckage that a BPD leaves at their heels and you minimize the pain of the codependent that was drawn to the BPD when they either are split or decide to end the unhealthy relationship on their own. The combination of borderline and codependent is the perfect storm and if you do read back for a year or so on this site you will see that most of us agree that we suffer from level of codependence which is personally destructive to the individual that suffers from it. Hence the advice of understand what makes a borderline sick and why you need to fix yourself so it does not happen again. I hope this ads clarity for you.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Even you have to be smiling by now…I have received more clarity today than I had ever hoped for….again, I do think understanding why someone does something makes it less personally painful-and I was not justifying the borderline behavior, I was telling Tim what it feels like when these emotions hit…so he would understand it was not him at all…Did you ever see the movie “”Practical Magic””? Well its Halloween Eve and a great night to watch it….all day, all I could hear was the opening scene..””Witch, witch, you’re a witch”” and then the hanging rope or stones being thrown.- how many times Tom, in the last 24 hours have you called me Mentally Ill?
        .I don’t think we did a damn thing for Tim today…I think we bickered, and postured all day….What do you want from me? Should I be like Van Gogh & send you m ear? I hear you, I hear you…and I disagree . Families of murdered children, go to talk to the killer to UNDERSTAND..its human nature to want to understand ….Understanding it doesn’t mean you have to get into bed with it again, it gives you knowledge ….You cannot lock up people for being Borderlines, well not yet..maybe after this forum you will get legistaltion passed, so writing what its like and what we feel is not criminal yet….

      • savorydish said

        I rarely moderate conversations but I think in this case it would best for all if you two disengaged.

      • toughmat said

        I think it is interesting. Listening to Tom and to Cece is like the conversation in my own head. On one hand I have bought into this “leave the psycho and fix the codependence” and it does seem that everyone here is trigger happy to kill off anyone that has a remotely borderline trait. Like Cece is pointing out, there is a gray area of borderline, and relationships, and perhaps it is worth it in some cases to see the relationship or person through. In Tom’s case, obviously not. From the outside of Tim’s case, doesnt look good. For SD, and Nick Heather who I know a lot about, the fact that your women cheated and lied so blatantly is a a huge deal and probably means they did the right thing or justice has been served by them doing the leaving (and splitting).

        In my case, my ex didnt cheat, or lie, but a lot of what Cece said about their fears that come into play in their behavior did occur. Maybe not in a psychotic way, but it made me (someone who doesnt have a good grasp on his own opinions very well) crazy at times. I would argue Tom that dating my ex was not hell…it was confusing and frustrating jumping through hoops. The only hell has been trying to live without her, and that is due to perception and forming on my part and my past.

        I think when Tom and SD say to leave a relationship that is crazy making in order to focus on ourselves, they are right. But what is the goal? And must we all treat the borderline or almost borderline with such fear? Tom, perhaps with your ex it would be a death wish to write a letter, but I dont think so with mine. Death wish can only mean I risk getting back and going through the cycle with her leading to more pain down the line because of contact. In that case, I agree. But its not like she would slain me verbally and even if she did at this point, I could take it and it would probably only validate my decision to walk.

        The reason I want to write a letter is because we really did have love for each other (I know you will tell me her love was fake or not real) and I dont see the harm in letting her know that she is not forgotten despite our separation. It doesnt have to be hatred and animosity, even though there were some painful exchanges made.

      • naples104 said

        Matt, we are our own keepers, I listen to advice from anyone, I take advice from a few. If your affection for this woman is so strong that you think that your love overcomes the bumps in the road how ever big they be, then go back. I am older than you and have the benefit of having raised 4 children. Raising children with an unstable spouse is very hard and when I divorced I had custody so that made it a bit easier. The relationship I had after my marriage with a BPD was hell most of the time because the bad was so bad. I needed to go through regression analysis to uncover what happened in my past that made my codependency a driving force in selecting women romantically. I have uncovered that and now I am free from that flawed analysis as it relates to selection. I am not saying that you suffer from that, but I have read much of your frustration with this woman and I offer what I have discovered about me and it may not be you. The forum here is to garner and solicit opinion and experience, what you do with it is your choice. I will never judge someone for the choices they make. I want happiness for me and I think I have found it. It is far from perfect and we fight sometimes in a nasty way but nothing like I did with a BPD. I comment when I see a post that I think I can help with, I am not an authority or an expert a MD or anything else. I am a salesmen and I offer what I have learned as a story that you may find a bit of yourself in or maybe not. I hope you don’t have the life I have had (in the past, my life now is better), but again not perfect and never will be, perfect does not exist but it is a noble goal. A book I read called Good to Great opened with “The enemy of Great is Good”. That make so much sense to me. I hope I help and not hurt everyone that visits this blog that SD is so kind to share with all of us. I hope you find peace and happiness Matt.

        Tom

      • Tim said

        I need help. I have posed the question several times about why is it that my bpd ex keeps writing me after she said she is slamming the door on us and never looking back. She keeps writing and texting and she just wrote me a text just now. She said…Happy 2 year 5 month Anniversary…we suck! What do I do with that? Why does she say she is slamming the door..yet she keeps writing. I’m so confused..

      • naples104 said

        Tim its hard to say why she keeps reaching out but if its over for you as hard as it is you need to keep with the no contact. Perhaps blocking her email address and if you have an Iphone you can block her text messages. When I broke it off with my BPD she turned to rage and threatened me a few times, I ignored her and then I never heard from her again. I had to resist the urge and they were strong urges to reach out but I had to resist as do you if it is really over. my BPD never accepted any blame for any aspect of her life, she was a skilled liar, she kept it a secret that she had been married 4 times, she abandoned her children when they were teenagers and then accepted no responsibility for how badly their lives turned out, always some one else’s fault as was the events of her life. I am not surprised that she is saying that you are horrible. Be there for your daughters and read about the things that we have talks about here. If you can not afford therapy at the moment look for a free clinic and get some help. I wish I had a magic answer for you, but time is best healer and knowledge of why you are drawn to this woman if she is a BPD and if you are a codependent. It sounds like you both are. Stay strong and consider going to church, that is something that I found peace in. I am not a religious person but I did attend services weekly and that did help.

        Tom

      • savorydish said

        It is possible that you and Tim are playing roles from your respective pasts. The question is what buttons are you pushing for him and vice versa.

      • Tim said

        I am grateful to all parties involved with today’s postings for illustrating that there is value in all opinions. I can see Tom and CeCe’s points for what they are…and where they come from. Much like watching the news…someone in my position should take in all sides of an issue and use the information to make a sound judgement of what works and what makes sense for their life. I will do that. I have come to all of you out of extreme need. I am in one of the most painful scenarios of my life and I desperately want to find some clarity and some peace. Please people…find common ground…somewhere. I want to stay on this page and talk this out if everyone is willing to listen…but the intense sniping makes me consider leaving for something else…although right now I dont know what to do or where to go.

        I will write to CeCe independently, because I would like to hear what her perspective is. Tom you are providing me with direction and insight that I need so badly…please both of you…if you are willing…help me ok? I am 48, a little haggered, but college educated and I can take what both of you are saying and make it fit the right way in this mess. A year from now I want to have the peace that Tom speaks of…and a year from now I want to understand MY problems…the way CeCe understands hers. In all of that…I will draw my OWN conclusions. Thank you all for being there. I have read the posts all day…but I am unable to write during work hours. I will continue tonight with some questions that have come to mind.

      • naples104 said

        Tim, I dont mean to snipe and I hold no ill will toward anyone on here for any reason. I am critical of anyone that says or intimates that BPD is anything but a sever mental illness because it is. Do not stay away from here, SD and his bloggers set me on the path of discovery and I found great comfort in the common theme of experiences that I read about on here. This site made me seek help and knowledge about why was I so affected by a BPD and how do I never let this happen again. I am happy to answer any questions that you may have that I feel I can help with. Stay with this Tim, it is an arduous journey to break free from the chains that kept you in an unhealthy relationship but you will come out of this healed and a better man. I hope I can help you.

        Tom

      • Tim said

        Thank you for the note Tom. I will stay with it. I have no choice. My two daughters..12 and 7, are looking to their dad to set an example of what a healthy relationship looks like. They know my ex…they know she has been in and out of the picture. I dont want to lose their respect because I cant set boundaries or I let someone walk on me. I have several questions in my immediate concern. I would like to pose this first one tonight. When my ex broke it off with me this last weekend…again…she ranted disproportionately about how she was leaving for good…never looking back…etc. etc. Since then I have received two texts…one of which I responded to…and now an email..which I have not read. If she is so set on being rid of me…why is she still contacting me…what does that mean? Is this her indecision or is it making sure I know what a horrible person I am? I understand that I should simply delete texts and emails without reading to preserve my peace of mind…yes? What is the right way to handle that? Thanks.

      • Tim said

        I have spent time soul searching for the causes in my past of my co-dependence. I know it directly relates to my lack of success in not only this relationship, but my previous ones as well. I had a very absent father as a child and I see direct connections to that. I longed for his approval and his time. In addition, my parents were not big with I love yous…they showed it with actions but did not say it a lot. I know now that the love I craved as a child in this period of time really set the stage for later problems.

      • CeCe Lenox said

        Also, your assumption that my past love life looks like Gettysburg On july 4, 1863 is simply you projecting on me. You know nothing personally about me, you don’t know if I have hurt no one or a thousand….innocent til found guilty….and on this site, or at least with you Tom, its oh.cover your ears,get under the covers, the Borderline is about to speak. Do not assume that I personally have injured anyone romantically. I could be writing from the a monastery in Tibet where I have lived cloistered since childhood for all you know. That’s where I get a bit frustrated….recounting a feeling in order to help someone understand does not by virtue make us guilty of the crime or mentally ill. You don’t even know if I am a borderline other than me telling you so, yet you have called me mentally ill over and over, accused me of bringing down the entire Confederate army in old love debris and generally discounted every thing I wrote…this is where the danger lies.- the assumptions carry too much weight.

      • Tim said

        Her use of sex is something I am still trying to understand. It was almost without boundaries of any kind…intensely wild…and when I would play along…she then slammed it shut and would call me a pervert for following her lead.

      • Tim said

        Your comment about a bpd woman not being able to maintain interest in a man like me…a co-dependent…was truly a hard case of reality for me. You are right. My co-dependence comes from my childhood…when my parents split. I had to grow up in a hurry at the age of 12, and I always just wanted peace…wanted everyone in the family to be happy. I guess many years down the road that is finally catching up with me. As I sit here typing, there is a great duality in my feelings…intense longing for her…combined with a complete uinderstanding and resolution that leaving is the right thing for me…tough combination for me right now.

      • Tim said

        Tom – I cant thank you enough for the help and advice. You are all wonderful for taking the time to direct a lost soul in the fog like I am. The ex I am speaking of is truly the greatest love of my entire life. She and I connected in ways that made me feel like my identity and hers were one and the same. For a while. There were amazing life changing moments of love that did not involve sex….quite a few. The sex however was intense. You are accurate that at times it resembled a reenactment of a porn film in my apartment. Her interest in passion was easy to mistake for simply enthusiasm and an open mind. I have done some reading though, and I am starting to understand more about why things were that way with her…and like you say…the reason she used that with me the way she did. I found her so beautiful and desireable…it was easy to get caught up in the moment. Is what your saying though..telling me that she knew what I was feeling and used that knowledge to manipulate things with me? Am I reading this right? Please let me know what you think. The clarity this is giving me really helps…Thank you again!

  7. jhan1969 said

    I have witnessed firsthand the psychotic element of BPD. It’s a terrifying, baffling thing. All reason goes out the window. I’m talking delusion, hallucinations, extreme paranoia . . . things that only a few trained professionals know how to deal with. It’s scary to think that I tried to handle situations that even seasoned professionals turn away from.

    It was only when I TRULY started to heal from codependency that I was able to break away for good. What did it for me was the FACT that I would never really have a life of my OWN if I stayed with a BPD. Everything in my world would revolve around managing the BPD’s condition. A great therapist (the guy literally SAVED MY LIFE) told me that as long as I stayed with this person, I would have to give up most of my personal aspirations because there would just be no room for them. He was DEAD HONEST about it.

    Two years later after the clean break, and I picked up my music again. I was on a plane heading to Europe to play in front of 2000 people. I can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that in my case, this never would have happened if I stayed in a BPD relationship.

    People will come here and talk about ‘compassion,’ etc, but what about compassion for NON BPD’s? What about MY LIFE?? I have EVERY RIGHT, based on my experience, to tell people to avoid relationships with BPD’s. It’s my compassion for the NONs who suffer ruined lives and shattered dreams. I am IMMUNE to the shaming language of those who would keep me ensnared. I have empathy for BPD’s who ARE trying to get better; but will ALWAYS be from a distance.

    • Sammy C said

      Amen to what you have posted here @jhan1969, I would never have found the professional ways to put what you have posted into words the way you did , but its precisely how I feel as well.

  8. Alexander said

    The psychotic element of BPD is real, I have been married to one for 27 years. The only way that I a been able to cope is by her staying heavily sedated with 4 kinds of medications and a whole lot of therapy and long stays in the mental ward.

  9. jhan1969 said

    CeCe Lenox is, IMO, a troll. Ignore her.

    Or, she’s just a BPD who’s here to elicit sympathy, in which case . . . ignore her.

    Live your lives and F__K Borderlines.

    • CeCe Lenox said

      No actually, the first person who answered me helped me immensely…they said explain and leave. Perfect advice…
      Wow, name calling, attacks, obscenities hurled.- its mob mentality at its finest…Troll, why its like being called “”Marilyn in the Munsters””..no one came here to fight and blow up your anti-borderline witch hunt,I had a question…
      I had a legitimate question and it was answered intelligently and civilly…Yes, please for God Sakes, ignore the Troll…Did anyone tie you up and Force you have a relationship with this borderline you despise so much..or did you chose it every step of the way? Thank you to the first person who answered my question- it was well thought out advice…and to the little person who so eloquently used obscenities to communicate…well, get some education , there is so much more to life than 4 letter words..lets see Troll is also a 4 letter word…..Poof, the troll is gone…( poof is also a four letter word so I am sure you can understand it)….please don’t reply nor will I…..

      • jhan1969 said

        See how it starts? This is textbook. I’m gone. No good being done here.

      • savorydish said

        Jhan,
        This isn’t a hate blog. We’re here to offer advice and insight to Nons as well as BPs. Anger is expected but let’s try to control it as opposed to unleashing it on every BP that stumbles onto this blog. Some deserve it. Others do not.
        SD

    • savorydish said

      There’s no need to demonize CeCe. She’s come here in peace. She asked her question and we answered it. It is now on her to handle her situation as best as she can. She came here for insight, not judgment. Let’s not attack people just because they trigger memories of our BPD relationships.

  10. CeCe Lenox said

    Thank you to everyone, even jhan1969, it been an enlightening experience out here. I received two very insightful kind answers and for those I am appreciative. I am not sure if Borderlines are even suppose to have a voice here? Is asking a question being a troll? I am here in Peace, but I am not here to be attacked or assigned anger for things I have not personally committed. Please clarify if being a borderline on this site is even wanted.

    • savorydish said

      You are welcomed. As well as any other borderline who wishes to share insight and compassion. Don’t worry about the attacks or accusations of being a troll. A lot of Nons have not yet worked out their feelings of rage. I let both sides work it out.

  11. toughmat said

    CeCe, Tom, Jhan, SD, everyone…its crazy how much Ive learned about bpd after reading freaking every site, book, article, and youtube out there, yet Im still confused about my ex and my role. This site ranks as the most important for me …during my darkest moments, including times still 4.5 months of no contact, I can come here and vent (boy do I vent) and read and get direct answers. I still wonder, as SD kind of put Jhan in his place for his anger, if I have turned my ex into a borderline for no good reason. I am a sucker for Euphoric Recall because I am trained to honor the woman I love…I used to get mad at myself for not thinking of my mom for too long for awhile after she passed away. Now with my ex, I have this built in system of honoring and loving her. It is really like she died and I am mourning the loss, except she lives over the hill and I can look at her fb profile. Each time I do my heart beats fast to see if there is a new guy or something. I know I know, dont look, but how I can I not? I am so attached, and I do believe I really love her. My confusion is still high and it pisses me off. Cece a lot of the things you wrote about attachment and the nature of how a bpd thinks are very interesting and make sense to me based on my experiences. My ex doesnt have a bpd diagnosis, only ptsd, and is in therapy with a great therapist but one who I think is a bit of an enabler. I have been no contact 4.5 months and I am very close to sending a letter to expalin that I still care about her but need to work on my own issues and hers on hers. That our relationship was ecstacy, but also erruption and I need to heal myself first. That I am not ready for direct contact (I guess a letter is direct) but that I wanted to share my feelings and let her know she is not just forgotten and I cherish our time and lessons. I have waited on sending the letter because I dont want to hurt her, or myself by making a contact. It also probably serves my selfish need to save and feel like a good guy. I also think if I send it, it may put the brakes on any new guys she may be seeing. I am trying to be very honest with myself. What do you think? I hold on to the hope of one day getting back with her. Our good times and the connection was so good. Some of my male friends say that all women are controlling and that is just how it is….just put up good boundaries, and know that it means they love us. Hearing that makes me feel like I dumped a great girl, because when she would give me a hard time my own adequacy issues and fears kicked in. I apologize for the length. I am aware that I write a lot about ME here and I also wonder if it is narcissistic. I think about everyone’s stories and in real life I really care and listen to other’s struggle. In fact I am very self-deprecating. I guess Im still lost and I miss her greatly. Thanks everyone.

    • savorydish said

      Work on yourself, my friend. Everything else will work itself out.

      • toughmat said

        Cece…what are your thoughts on me sending a letter expressing what ibe mentioned but being clear i am not ready for direct contact?

    • Tim said

      I can completely sympathize with you feelings. I am currently in the early stages of NC with my ex…and I miss her deeply. I am trying to remember the things that lead us to this point in a way that allows me to comfortably move past her. I wish you all the strength and wisdom in the world. I truly know the pain of loving someone who you just cant logically have. Take care of yourself…be good to you. Im going to try that for the first time in a long time.

      • naples104 said

        Matt, do not write that letter, it is a path to hell, a worse hell then you are living in. What you and Tim are going through is normal for a codependent, you need to understand the attachment theory and how that affected your ability to have a relationship with the opposite sex. In a way, we that have chosen to be with mentally ill people are just as sick in a less destructive way to others but in a huge destructive way to ourselves. Do you really want to deal with all of the fighting and insanity that you have experienced again? Euphoric recall is normal and dangerous. I would agree that most women have a controlling nature stronger than men due to the maternal instinct that that is part of their emotional DNA, but that is not pathology, being mentally ill is pathological. I dated a great deal once I went through therapy and it was very therapeutic to just sit and have a conversation with women over coffee and get to know me through those conversations and discover what I want from a relationship instead of being the fixer and saver of all women. You both are brand new to the no contact pain, stay with it and get help and fix your selves. I wish you all the best.

        Tom

      • Tim said

        Your’e right Tom. I have read many times this situation for me is like swearing off of a drug. I guess the trick I am looking for is the best way to get my head in the right place on an hour to hour..day to day basis. My ex sent me a text last night around 11pm. I didnt read it…just deleted. The fact that it showed up hurt though. I’ve had a couple of days where I feel like i’m gaining strength, and then she pokes in again. I know I need to seek professional care to help in my process of healing…right now, I dont have that available. I am in a rebuilding job after a period of unemployment and I dont have health benefits. I am really trying to do this on my own.

        Oh…one more wrinkle. I have a friend who always had a thing for my ex…and has respectfully asked for permission to call her. He was nice about it but seriously…do I need that aggrivation right now? I dont own her and she can do what she wants….needless to say this is straining my friendship to the brink of cancellation. I dont need that right now…lol. Thank you again Tom…you and everyone else are really saving me right now.

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