Passing Judgement

March 27, 2013

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(This has been re-posted because of the exchange that is currently going on in the comment section.)

The following comment was left under a posting titled Should Fucked Up People Be in a Relationship:

I feel like you all speak from a pedestal.
As if you have been endowed the right to pass judgement upon those who dare drag their sorry, disease ridden carcasses beneath you, condemning them for the living needs and scorning them should they chose death.
I am sixteen years old. I have been diagnosed with mental illness and am struggling–both with disease and simply being a human. I read this and cry. I hear you deem groups and groups of people unfit to be in a relationship, myself among them through default of the twists in my DNA.
I tend to believe the worst of myself, but even to me this seems inhuman. That a child born with illness should be arbitrarily labeled UNFIT for deep intimacy with another, a basic human right, is a tragedy.
I wonder if this another group to be stigmatized, another people to be crushed beneath unfit blame.
First they came for the Jews, the catholic, the African American, the gays.
Now they come for me.
I hope when they come for you, friend, you have somewhere to run your lonely way.

Notice the extreme emotionality. So full of self-pity and drama. You could argue that this is a product of being young and naive. But what you are witnessing is the product of youth combined with mental illness.

We all have a right to pass judgement. As humans we make judgements all the time. That is how we steer through life. This young blood would prefer it if we all steer blindly through life, allowing others to take advantage of our good nature. This one would have people dive into relationships with complete disregard for their own well-being.

Discrimination is bad when we are making erroneous and broad judgements against people based on superficial observations. But when those judgements are based of scientific observation, they serve as a map through an emotional minefield.

This is not discrimination against an ethnic or a religious group. We are talking about protecting ourselves against personalities that have been identified by their toxic nature. Good mothers teach their children not to talk to strangers. This blog teaches people to be wary of those with borderline tendencies.

Beware of those who have an irrational fear of judgement. If someone is obsessed with being judged, that is a red flag. It is an indication of someone with borderline tendencies. At the core of this disorder is a fear of rejection.

To the hyper-sensitive borderline, judgement feels like barbed-wire being dragged through their veins. When you judge a borderline and their behavior, they assume you are intentionally inflicting pain. They assume you are unfairly singling them out. They lash out with unbridled rage. They never assume that you are protecting yourself from harm.

Arrested development prevents them from accepting responsibility for their behavior. They fail to see that there is a reason why people are judging them. They fail to see that their behavior is harmful to others. They are completely unaware of the mind games they play.

Take a good look at the comment above.There was a clear intent by the young author to tug at your heart strings. At the tender age of 16, she has already mastered the fine art of manipulation. She wants you to visualize her tears, because she wants you to feel her pain. A pain only a borderline can feel.

This is why countless borderlines have tried to shut down this blog. They are feeling rejection on a massive level. To a borderline, this is worse than death. Therefore, they will attempt to silence you by any means necessary. Young borderlines don’t need an attorney to order a cease and desist. They have the power of guilt and shame at their disposal.

Even those who are aware of their disorder, will attempt to use it as a tool to silence you. They will claim victim status just to avoid criticism. This is how manipulative borderlines get away with murder. When you speak the truth, they will accuse you of abuse. They will threaten legal action. They will accuse you of all sorts of crimes against humanity. Such is the way of a drama queen.

The 16 year-old commenter is wrong when she says intimacy is a basic human right. That is the entitlement that comes with being borderline. She is too self-righteous and immature to realize that love is a responsibility. When you enter a relationship, you become responsible for the other person’s well being.

Clearly, the person above is too overwhelmed by her own pain to think about the pain she causes others.

74 Responses to “Passing Judgement”

  1. Flopsy said

    SD… When I first read the 16 year olds comments I felt a little guilt. However, your follow up was a jolt back to reality. Thank you for your insight and for shining the light on such a destructive disorder. This blog keeps a lot of people grounded and supported.

    • savorydish said

      My pleasure, Flopsy. Thanks for the kind words.

      I am very familiar with the games these troubled people play. And I can assure you, they know how to pass on guilt. Make no mistake, this is abusive behavior.

  2. naples104 said

    It is easy to feel sorry for a BPD if you have loved one, that is the disease, guilt you into believing they are victims and to an extent they are because of the way they were raised and the lack of integrated emotions. For 2 years I lived in hell believing that my mere existence was an offense to Debi and I worked very hard to correct that. As soon as she developed a relationship with another sugar daddy and he gave her a place to live she packed and left, no remorse, no closure with my children that were devastated. The fact is that these people do not take responsibility for their behavior and they have to know the “raging” they go through is not typical of a healthy mind. Yet they continue to threaten, devalue and discard the people they claim to love when their pain of who they are is too much to handle, I have no sympathy for a BPD that knows they are a mess and does nothing about it. A right to a relationship? What about the person’s rights that you are going to scar for life with your mental illness? It took me along time to process the behavior of the dangerous woman named Debi, that I lived with and have her be a non issue in my mind. but her connection was so strong to me because of the co-dependency that I was suffering from that I still think of her every day and want to tell her off and discard her they way she has done to so many men and to who her own children. I read a book called the Four Agreements, I highly recommend it to everyone. If you have been victimized by a BPD find a therapist that specializes in Cluster B and heal. Thank God for this site, it has helped so many and to those of you that are offended by it, go get help and save yourself and the people whose lives you will ruin. If you don’t please comment on here so we can educate people to stay away from you, so they know the waring signs to look for and we can maybe convince you that is you and not everyone else that needs help.

    Tom

  3. MickeyD said

    She doesn’t speak as a 16 year old to me….much older.

    MickeyD

    • savorydish said

      I agree. She doesn’t sound 16. But that only points out the contradictions. The borderlines I knew would ACT like they were mature in public, but then act in immature ways behind closed doors. To be fair, these were borderlines with histrionic tendencies.

  4. naples104 said

    Remember, BPD are pathological liars, at least the one I lived with is.

  5. naples104 said

    remember, they tend to be very bright, mine was very smart and mature but when she would rage, she was like a nine year old. The I hate you, the name calling, the treats of calling the police and having me arrested, threatening me with calling up the school and child family services and telling them that I should not be allowed to see my children, the locking of the bedroom door, the violence, the trashing of the house… . When they lash out anything goes that places blame to you and can punish you. The therapist that saw after she left told me that men that stay with borderlines generally end up being arrested all as means of punishment for not giving the arrested development personality what they want. I remember the incidents like they were yesterday and the ironic thing is they block it out and never apologize and hour after it happens. The sense of entitlement is incomprehensible to a healthy mind. they take and demand and if they don’t get what they want they rage. She does seem older and may be, the lies are a way of life for these mentally people. One part of me feels sorry for them and the miserable lives they lead and the other side me has to release the anger I feel for having wasted so much time with her. I have to concentrate every day to not ruminate on the horrible experience I had for two years and focus on that I have been spared any more anxiety from BPD.

    Tom

    • savorydish said

      Yes, many are highly intelligent and well-educated. This compensates for their emotional handicaps. They immerse themselves in books because they are hiding from a world that doesn’t understand them.

      But once they are emotionally triggered, their primitive regions take over in the brain. This is when they revert to being a child.

      In a moment of calm, you can have the most stimulating conversation. But if they feel threatened, the communication starts to break down. Logic flies out the window.

      The 16 yr-old commenter might be book smart, but she is naive about relationships.

  6. Marie said

    SD thanks so much for posting this and your response. I am in awe that at 16 she is already a master manipulator. I also felt a little guilty but then remembered the hell I have been through with my ex with BPD. Even if I said “you are making me feel bad” he would say I was judging him when I was merely expressing my feelings. Only his feelings counted. It’s sad and scary that there are so many people out there with this condition and so many unsuspecting nice people who are going to be put through hell just like we were. My ex is in therapy but based on the nasty phone messages and texts I am gettiing (but not answering) it’s either not working or the therapist has no idea that my ex has BPD. I wish there were a cure to save us all so much pain and heartache…both the BPD sufferers and their victims. Until then, thanks for getting and keeping the word out there and this lifeline for all those who desperately need it.

  7. naples104 said

    Hey Tough, sounds like my BPD, she always accused of me not loving enough, not enough attention. Yet, every day we would wake up and I would shower her with kisses and tell her she was beautiful, tell her how I was the luckiest man alive, that i loved like no other. When we made love, she called it fucking because she is incapable of true love, it was pleasure for her as much as I could give her, when she was done, it was done. It’s all about them and their needs and by the way, their needs cannot be met by anyone long term.

    What she has written is all about her setting up the reason that she cannot love you. My opinion, her fear of you abandoning her is all she is concerned with and she will leave you, split and black before you can leave her. If you are with her again consider moving on. You are in a no compromise relationship, you do all the compromising and she accuses of you not doing enough. My BPD, Debi, left 5 times and I begged her back 5 times and the fifth time she was gone for good and I could not be more relieved now that I have healed. It was very painful, but you need to address your co-dependency and set boundaries for you. You need to get happy and content with being alone and in peace in your mind and realize that you need no one to be happy. She has stolen your self esteem and stolen you. She will alienate you from all of your friends and move in for the “control kill” and control all of your life and thoughts, it is what they do. Then she will discard you after she devalues you to a point that you are left like a helpless puppy. I wish you the best my friend. I don’t know if savory will agree with me but months of intensive therapy and reading is what I have just related to you. I could be wrong for you, but that is what I experienced.

    Tom

  8. toughmat said

    Tom I really appreciate it. I agree with you for the most part, however she is capable of love more than I think most borderlines are…or she is conscious enough of herself to fake enough love. But after sex, she wants to cuddle and generally shows me more attention than I show her.

    Relationship with her, the only one I know, includes:
    -wake up texts
    -goodnight texts
    -lots of I love you every ending of phone call and often

    This, as I learned from Savory, is because she needs to feel control and love so she feels secure. If she doesnt get it or I accidently trigger her, then she is more liable to act out with accusations and withdrawal.

    My good friends all just came back into town from a long trip, and now the truer test of our relationship will begin. On our trip I stuck to her like glue and was a yes man. Having been back I am sure she is riding the wave a bit and I am still very careful about her triggers and making sure I give her nice compliments and attention she craves (though she will deny it). I am trying to “put her first” more so when the accusations come I will feel like her perceptions are ridiculous. Basically I am trying to be a great boyfriend so when shit hits the fan I can feel less guilt. Co-dependency and pro-longing addiction at its finest!

    She thanks me for making more efforts and says she appreciates everything to the finest detail. I dont know if it is genuine or if she is just idealizing. Probably idealizing. Despite my being back, I am in therapy with a great therapist trained extensively with bpd, and I am going to start going to Coda meetings more often. I realize it is a mess, but i am going to get to the truth one way or another and in the end I cannot settle.

  9. naples104 said

    Matt my friend, you have the truth, read what you wrote. My little crazy Debi did the same things, love you texts all day, uninhibited sex, love notes, lip prints on napkins and mirrors all over the house telling me she loved me, all the same behavior. Matt you are addicted to her and the illusion of what you think is real love, it is real control of you and she will never control you enough in her mind. I hope it works for you brother. I cried and begged her back when she found a new man to use, abuse and control. My advice Matt, is get out, shut her off from your life and suffer through the pain that you will go through. It is worth it at the end. You can have a normal relationship with a mentally healthy woman, but first you have to heal and and fix yourself. All the best my new friend.

    Tom

  10. vildman said

    ‘Not all of us are like that! You’re generalizing!’

    — Which is just meant to shut you up.

    ‘Nazis, blah blah blah . . .’

    — Which is just meant to shut you up.

    ‘ How dare you judge me!’

    — Which is just meant to shut you up.

    All of that is a person holding their hands over their ears like a child, screaming ‘I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!’

    Here’s how it works: someone comes along and accuses you of over-generalzing. Or they compare you to a Nazi. Or they condemn you for being ‘judgmental.’ This immediately puts you in a one-down position, from which you have to fight back. That’s how Borderlines and Narcissists and Histrionics (to a lesser extent) operate. They are experts at it.

    When these people are treated properly, they stop doing that. Until then, you CANNOT effectively communicate with them. They are an open wound. All you will get is sickness.

    Thank God for the few who had the courage to truly recover.

  11. naples104 said

    Vidman,

    by being treated properly I assume you mean therapy. You cannot deal with a BPD on a level no matter how much you kiss their ass, I tried it for 2 years and it is a waste of time, money all at the expense of you own sanity. These people should not be walking around, they are psychotic and dangerous. If you encounter one or are involved with one, get out and run away from them as fast as you can.

    Tom

  12. toughmat said

    Can someone provide a definition of “rage” or raging when it comes to a bpd relationship? Does it always involve yelling and screaming or can it be more subtle?

    What about the way a bpd enjoys movies? If they get insecure at hot women on the screen is that just extreme insecurity or bpd? The movie Ted for example I was dying laughing at some of the jokes while my gf couldnt stand them…likely because of being raped. At the same time she craves sex and had a premiscuous period in her life. It is almost as if extreme insecurity breeds narcissism.

  13. naples104 said

    Matt, when debi and I would watch something I enjoyed she hated it. It took attention from her. I made a comment of the women on fox news that they are all beautiful and she was insanely jealous. You are in checkmate with her and she has your king and you cannot see it. I did the same thing and she wrecked me for a period of time. Find a woman that is mentally healthy. Most women love sex with a man they love is what I have found. Dont let her use sex to hook you, its all she has and all Debi had, otherwise she was just about useless but I could not see it.

    Tom

  14. Marie said

    Matt and Tom,
    Yes, mentally healthy women love sex with the man we love. We are also capable of being very romantic, it all depends on the woman you are with. The BPD male is also good at faking love when it comes to sex because he craves it so much and to hook you back in or keep you from leaving him. My BPD ex and I never had issues in the bedroom as that was when he was the most “loving” and “normal”. I could ask for anything or do anything during our time together in bed and not worry about being yelled at or him changing into his monster. Luckily I was more passionate than he was (he’s 50 and I’m 42) so he actually had trouble keeping up with me which was a new experience for him. They are used to being the BEST sex you have had in your LIFE and want you to tell them that. In our case that was not true so he always felt he had to prove himself to me. Of course you can’t stay in bed forever and I kept pointing out if that’s the only time we get along then the relationship was not working or healthy. Both genders use sex to keep pulling you back in but don’t mistake how they make love to you as love because it’s not, it’s just more manipulation. They know exactly what to say and do to keep you coming back for more hell. Run and run fast you can find a normal woman who is just as passionate and loving. Is sex worth possibly dying for? I didn’t think so…these people can’t be trusted as they are psychotic. Just remember all the bad things she says and does and block out the sex.

  15. naples104 said

    Marie, so true, so true, Debi used sex as the hook to reel me in for 2 years. It did not matter where it was, a long hike in the woods, on the boat, at the beach in a remote spot, this list goes on. Sex is not love and if you do what I did and interpret it as acceptance, they own you. Matt be careful, this woman tore the soul from me and then went right to the arms of another man and cut me out of her life like I did not exist. I am over her for the most part, I still think about her but more about the manipulation and control then the very few good times. She ruined ever special occasions that had friends and family involved, it was our first Christmas together that was the only really good experience we had. She was at her best with the worst boiling below the surface. Find a healthy woman and enjoy a healthy relationship and keep in mind that love in cultivated, it is not an explosion of emotion. All explosions are bad and when the debris clears all you have is wreckage. Thanks Marie for the very insightful words. It is great to have a mentally healthy woman comment on here. We men, that have been victims of a borderline need the perspective of a woman. All the best this new year.

    Tom

    • Marie said

      Thank you, Tom, and you are welcome. If anyone needs my perspective ask me anything and I will answer. Happy New Year to you and hugs for being a fellow survivor! I wish that only mentally healthy people cross our paths for the rest of our lives.

  16. toughmat said

    Thanks for commenting. My gf is very sick a lot which is part of why i am hokked. she will apologize and thank me for being there for her a lot. She always offers to pay for things and says thank you with sincere gratitude. she does show empathy and listens. those are positives. lately i have noticed the nature or absence of her questions. evey now and then they are to stinulate interesting conversation but for the most part it is me asking. i assume this issepqrate from the borderline stuff. time will tell. can someone please explain what rages are?

    • savorydish said

      Rage can express itself in all sorts of ways. When you speak about borderline women, you must speak about passive-aggressive rage. You must understand why you are being abused and may not even know it. Borderline women can act out violently. But most of them are much more covert with their attacks. Your gf shows rage when she complains about you not picking up the phone. She is dumping the rage collected over a lifetime.

  17. toughmat said

    Ill try to refrain from commenting from my phone. sorryfor poor grammar

  18. naples104 said

    raging is when they cannot handle their own pain anymore and they lose control and blame all of the issues of the relationship and their behavior on you. They have no integrated emotions, you are either a god to them or a devil. In my case my BPD would lock the bedroom door and go silent, I would challenge that childish behavior and she would explode and sometimes become physically abusive, mostly verbally and say horrible things and not care where she did it or who was present. The being sick part is another bad sign, Debi was always complaining about some physical ailment, its a great attention getter. They think them selves sick and then blame it on the stress you place on them. The question you have to ask yourself is do you want to live this way? I did for 2 years and was afraid it would end and I would be alone. Now that I am over it, I would rather have a tooth pulled than live in that hell again. Matt, you need to get out, heal, grieve the illusion of the love you think you are in and start fresh with a mentally healthy woman.

    Tom

    • toughmat said

      Thanks Tom. to be fair my gf has lupuS, rheimatoid arthritis and severe cyclical vomiing. one of her drs says it is mostly ptsd stuff but the lupus and ra are real auto immune disorders. She getspretty heavy treatment for them. They allow for very histrionic traits esp on facebook. i have never had a physical issue w her. She sounds more mature than yours on average although i have seen some pretty bad moments. The other night i was scolded in a text because i didnt pick up the phone when we were both pRking. to meet at my place and there were no spots kn the stret. i was on the line with someone else regarding work. i was accused of qlways needing to be on my phone. she felt neglected

  19. naples104 said

    wow, Matt, sounds like torture to me, I am out of the borderline relationship and I have not been this happy since the love bubble period was over with Debi. I will tell you getting over her was the most emotional thing I have ever gone through, but a pain well worth going through. Like Ben Franklyn said, when going through hell, go fast!! Go fast my friend to the end.

    Any way I can help I will. The nasty text and scolding was devaluing you and keeping control of you so you feel like you did something wrong, that gives the BPD power. I wish you the best with this, but I think we both know the outcome down the road.

    Tom

  20. Antoni said

    Thank you savorydish.

    I am quite certain that my ex-girlfriend (of 2.5 years) has BPD (undiagonsed of course). I showed her some quotes from your site and she went into the predictable denial phase, saying that she is ‘similar’ but it’s ‘not the same’ (lol).

    Now she admits to it but is actively preventing me from communicating with her family about it (they deserve to know, every since I stopped being the punching-bag, she “can’t control her emotions at home” but at work, it’s not a problem -_-. But keeping it a secret, as you said, helps noone.

    These people’s selfishness has no end. This girl abandoned me many times but the last straw was when she did it immediately after a death in my family. I had never experienced the death of someone that I knew well before so I was already hurt from that and she made everything worse. It was disgusting. The senseless devaluation, bragging about others guys, I understand why many guys resort to violence. Fortunately this was a long-distance relationship. I am grateful for that now. I doubt she has the courage to act out like this to my face.

    They act like they suffer so damn much. Like in this pathetic subreddit:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/BPD/comments/17pg4k/combating_negative_misconceptions_and_stereotypes/

    http://www.reddit.com/r/BPD/comments/xx0qd/why_it_is_important_for_users_to_report_posts/

    I mean seriously? Anti-BPD? As opposed to pro-BPD right? I also love how people abuse the ‘misogynist’, ‘racist’, ‘Anti-Semitic’, ‘homophobic’ (stupid word) cards. As if being accused of any of these labels suddenly invalidates your argument.

    BPD deserves every ounce of stigma it gets and I don’t give a fuck how it makes them ‘feel’. It needs to be MORE well known actually.

    Just reading your story has helped me greatly. Thank you so much. I don’t deserve that nonsense and don’t have to tolerate it either. This girl had it pretty bad, all of the symptoms mostly including the suicide ideation and blackmailing. Wish I would have noticed sooner. I overlooked many, many, things (like the constant break-ups) because I wanted to ‘fix’ everything.

    Speaking of the constant-breakups, one time she was literally begging me to break-up over something (hell if I know). I kept declining so she kept on begging. Then when I finally said yes, IMMEDIATELY she BLAMED ME FOR BREAKING UP. What the hell right? These people are disturbed.

    She blackmailed me into not contacting one of my friends one time (isolation before the ‘kill’). Fortunately that friend and I continued to talk and I apologised for my actions. Never let that happen again. I got fed up with her some weeks ago and stopped talking to her for some weeks (out of anger, she was ignoring and devaluing me for no goddamn reason, talking about how she was ‘better’ without me and acted like I was the one with the problem).

    Karma is a bitch. One of her relatives died in a car accident and afterwards she got into (another) car accident and was injured. I hate to say it but I didn’t feel one shred of sympathy for her. She killed it all. I am an extremely forgiving person (too forgiving) but I have limits too.

    She did the whole ‘hoovering’ thing after that, how she ‘worried’ about me weeks ago and how she thought all the bad things that happened to her were ‘punishment’ for her actions torwards me. Then she does the whole ‘leaving’ thing again (in the same conversation!) which just made me more angry.

    And for some reason, I STILL try to help her out after all that bullshit. Starting to feel like I’m the crazy one for still trying to help. Sometimes I feel like I am being cruel for not caring about her suffering. It’s abnormal for me to be so…indifferent. The effects of trauma?

    I guess all of the projection (from her) is getting to me a bit.

    But anyway, once again, thank you savorydish. You’re doing a good thing here.

    Talking to her now, it’s so easy to see the emotional chaos going on in her head. I feel bad for her family and I want them to know why she acts the way she does. They deserve to know too. They noticed her self-esteem problems as well.

    But hey she’s very good at drawing/painting so I guess that makes up for it right? Oh and she started going to the gym! Overcompensating. I keep telling her, her appearance isn’t the problem. She could look like a super model and still be ugly to me because of how she acts. So superfical…changing your appearance is easier than addressing the real underlying problems huh? Anything to avoid addressing that. But lately she hasn’t been in denial which is why I want her family to know NOW before she starts the vicious cycle over again.

    Unrelated but here’s a blog I think you might interesting (no I don’t have any relation to it lol): http://human-stupidity.com/

    • savorydish said

      You’re welcome. If these women were more concerned about their behavior and less concerned about what people say about them, then they wouldn’t have to worry about the stigma.

  21. Karen said

    I hope you realize that you have just singled out a vulnerable 16 yr old to the vultures on the internet. There is nothing inherently wrong with your previous post, indeed the notion that people with mental health issues should be wary of their impact on others is more than justified, but perhaps the other healthy party is at least semi responsible for their own wellbeing and how much they invest in a relationship. when a relationship like that breaks down both parties are victims, instead of demonizing the person and morphing their illness into their whole being, perhaps redirecting the person to professional help is more productive. Your teenage reader is merely reacting humanly, if someone told you were not fit to love you’d be defensive too, at no point did the girl say love doesnt require commitment of both parties and that there is no responsibility involved, love is also a feeling, and I think, just maybe if you could step down from that ” I have seen it all” way of thinking, then you will realize we all should have the right to love and be loved. Please take a look at what you have written, and consider the damage you could have done. Yes that child may be naive, she may even be unwell, but if you are so knowledgeable about mental illness than you should know you may have just pushed her over the edge. To those who applaud these posts behind your computer desk, I implore you to find your humanity.

    • savorydish said

      Karen,

      I can see that you are prone to melodrama but the fact is SHE WROTE TO ME. So if she is indeed as vulnerable as you say she is, then she made herself vulnerable to “the vultures of the internet”. You’re not doing anyone any favors by defending disordered thinking and behavior. You are only prolonging their pain and allowing them to demonize themselves. All you have done is condoned your own co-dependent tendencies. Save yourself.

  22. naples104 said

    If someone is a borderline they have been told that something is wrong with them long before they arrive here. I have no sympathy for the person that is mentally ill and does nothing about it. In the case of a borderline they are not capable of having a relationship and telling that over and over again I think is fine. The damage they do to the people around them is staggering and hurting them and perhaps scaring them and saving others the destruction of their mental illness is worth their pain. I would tell Debi until the sun rises in the west that she is highly dangerous and toxic to all she meets. If that hurts her and causes her to be self destructive so be it. She ruined the lives of her 2 children, 4 ex husbands, (she lied to me and told me she was married twice), who knows ho many men outside of marriage and the tens of thousands of dollars spent on her to try to help her, fuck her if she is hurt. It is for the greater good.

    Tom

    • savorydish said

      Both Karen and the 16yr old BP need to learn that love is not a right. It’s a responsibility. And no amount of grandstanding or manipulative heartbleeding will change that.

  23. Karen said

    Love is a feeling. We all have a right to our feelings. Undoubtedly love comes with responsibilities but a relationship is something that can only occur when there are two parties, so it only makes sense that both persons should be responsible for the development or breakdown of it.
    also to savorydish, that girl expressed an opinion, you did not have to single her out to write a separate post explicitly in response to her.
    To Tom, im sorry to hear that youve been through such a rough relationship and I’m glad you are moving on. I must however point out that moving on means not harboring hatred for this woman, it will be counterproductive to your own wellbeing.

    • Marie said

      Karen,
      You are correct that both people are responsible for the relationship, however, when one party knows he/she needs professional help that person has an obligation to get it and to disclose that fact as soon as possible. I have no hatred toward my borderline ex only pity and he put me through 9 months of hell. I tried along with his parents and his children to get him to go to therapy. He is not capable of loving anyone except himself which is very sad since he has 3 wonderful children who need a father. I was raised by 2 borderline parents and can tell you from the child’s perspective that they only love themselves and think about their own well-being. Thank God I only encountered one siginificant other who has this condition and will be very careful to watch for signs of this in the future. This site I believe was created as a way of teaching people about borderline personality disorder and also a place for those of us to get support while we are trying to piece our hearts and lives back together. If you are not happy with what is written here you dont’ have to read the comments.

      • Karen said

        Tom and Marie, I wholeheartedly agree with you, people who are mentally ill need to seek help and be responsible for informing their significant other of their condition and the complications that come with it. And Marie you are correct about the site, I’m not the intended audience nor that child, thats possibly why it’s upsetting to read. I am however wary of savorydish’s attitude and method of raising awareness. Finally to Savorydish, I am not intent on casting anyone into victim positions, but only offering another point of view, nor is there any ‘talent’ involved, I am merely speaking from experience of working professionally with mentally ill people.

      • savorydish said

        For someone who has no “intent” you show a natural talent. Perhaps your work with troubled souls has created a co-dependent bond that is too hard to break. But somebody has to protect the poor BP teens from the evil-doers like me.

    • savorydish said

      She made a comment and I felt it was important to highlight those comments and reply to them. You have a talent for casting BPs as helpless victims. Where did you pick up that talent?

      • savorydish said

        It seemed she was quite interested in having her voice heard. I gave her what she desperately wanted- attention.

      • Marie said

        Savory dish and Karen,
        First of all, Savory Dish, I can’t thank you enough for this site. You helped me figure out what was wrong with my exboyfriend, overcome the 9 months of torture I went through with him AND resolve childhood issues when I realized that BOTH my parents were different types of BPD. I have also been able to support others here and tell them that there IS hope in getting your life back completely.
        Karen, I think it’s admirable that you work with mentally ill people. This site is helping many not just myself. Whether or not you like how Savory Dish presents things you should know that he has probably saved many lives or at least many people’s sanity by sharing what he has to say (and what others have to say) with us. It makes me sad that Tom felt he had to apologize for expressing his feelings here…that is what this site is about. Everyone is able to share their experiences and get support.
        Maybe if you had been in a relationship with a BPD as a parent, relative or significant other your perspective would be a little different. If you truly feel a BPD can love someone other than him/herself you are sadly mistaken. They really even have a hard time loving and accepting themselves the way they are but somehow manage to do so above all else and no matter who else gets hurt in the process.
        Mental illness is a huge problem in this country, as you know. There are many people walking around that NEED professional help and never get it. This site raises awareness to that fact.
        Please walk a mile in our shoes…we have walked MORE than a mile with our exBPD’s…and not one person here has not tried to be sympathetic, love them and take care of them even when it was mentally, physically and/or emotionally dangerous for us to do so. We have sympathy AND empathy but in the end we had to save ourselves.

      • savorydish said

        Thank you, Marie.
        Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  24. naples104 said

    Hi Karen and thanks for your thoughts. I am sorry if I sound as if I am resentful, quite on the contrary, I am grateful that I experienced what I did with a borderline, it made me change my life and how I see myself. The experience itself was awful, the outcome positive. I do not harbor hatred for anything and I am in a loving relationship with a woman that I hope is my last relationship. My mission on here is to help people see, through my experiences, that life with a borderline or a narcissist, anti social…, any cluster B disorder person is likely to be hell. The fact that 90% of borderlines are women does not mean that any of us here that are men hate women. Men that have the characteristics of BPD are more likely to be narcissistic or antisocial as it relates to Cluster B disorders. My issue is when you are an adult and you have been told many times that you need help, coupled with all of the signs that you have issues with a relationship on any level with any one and you do not seek help, then I have no sympathy or mercy for you. I care much more for the victims of those people than I do for the mentally ill person that chooses mental illness over help and a better life. SD and this site has helped more than a few people become strong after the emotional devastation that most often takes place when involved with a mentally ill person. I also task those that have been romantically involved and had a relationship with a mentally ill person to find out why they chose a person that most would run from. The responsibility is bilateral to fix ourselves irrespective of if you are the mentally ill person or the affected party. Cluster B disorder people are seriously ill and should be avoided and are not capable of having a typical relationship with anyone.

    Tom

  25. naples104 said

    Marie, you are so right, this site has helped me and has put me in a position to voice my experience with BPD’s to help educate others. We all have gone as far as anyone could go with trying to love and help the people we were with. I have no guilt over the things that I have written or sympathy for the mentally ill person I was with.

    Tom

    • savorydish said

      So when someone like Karen comes here with her “holier than thou” and “woe as her” speech, my immediate reaction is to shoot her down. She has no right to judge people who have been harmed by BPs. Furthermore, she is enabling 16 yr-old BPs. Ensuring they will go on causing harm and havoc.

      • Karen said

        We are all human and we all speak from a variety of perspectives as a result og differing life experiences and personal values that make who we are, noone can fully understand the pain of what other people have been through, because we aren’t them but indeed we can share our thought and find comfort in validation, it is only human, and this is why your readers are so grateful for this outlet, I have stumbled across this site and wanted to voice my point of view. Isnt it a tad extreme to feel the need to “shoot down” my opinion, I have since ventured to read your earlier posts and they were written quite compassionately especially in encouraging those with bpd to seek help, so maybe I have judged too quickly, but as in the essence of this post, aren’t we all prone and entitled to judgement? I have seen bpd patients recover and especially for young teens their personality is still developing, it’s one thing to feel angered or saddened by an adult who refuses treatment but another entirely to tell a young girl who is still trying to find her feet she is a master manipulator when she is just upset that people think she’s too broken to live fully because she has an illness,

      • savorydish said

        Karen,
        Have you ever fallen in love with a BP? Only to have them betray you in the cruelest way possible. Have you?

        Because I venture to guess that the reason why you rush to judgement is because you have only seen the treatment side of BPD. You haven’t experienced BPD in the setting of an intimate relationship. Your own intimate relationship.

        It is easy to judge others when you stand behind a clipboard.

        When emotions are vulnerable to harm, we don’t have the privilege of judging people behind the safety of a glass wall or from the height of an almighty tower.

        You haven’t seen BPD when it masquerades as the love of your life one day. And then the next day, for inexplicable reasons, it runs in fear.

        Maybe I would be less likely to shoot down your opinions if you actually knew what you were talking about. I don’t doubt that you have seen the rare success stories. But for each of those stories, there are a 100 more BPs who live in denial and continue to harm the ones they “love”.

        You ask us to show more compassion for BPs. But you offer zero compassion for the ones whose lives have been ruined by your beloved BPs. Perhaps you should spend some time in our shoes before you rush to judgement.

      • Karen said

        We are only human and we can only speak from our own experiences, our views differ because we have been through different things and hold different values as a result of it. I jumped in defensively because I have seen bpds recover and especially for young teens whose personality is still developing, using her as an example and calling her a master manipulator publicly can have consequences that you wouldn’t want to see happen. I have since ventured to read your other posts and I’ll admit I may have reacted too emotionally and judgementally
        at things. I can tell you are capable of great compassion especially upon reading your posts encouraging BP sufferers to seek help and wishing them well. In the same way I can see why your readers are grateful to you and find comfort and validation for the pain they have been through. I cannot claim to be any wiser than any other of these people here nor can I ever fully understand each of their personal experiences, but I wanted people to see the other side of the picture, life isnt black and white and being mentally ill isnt the be all and end all. I hope you can appreciate that and stop feeling the need to “shoot down” these views because they are every bit as real and valid as anyone’s.

    • riley said

      I’ve been reading thru the blog and comments. I have no gripes with BPD sufferers and will not generalize. But I came here seeking info on my ex who has many of the signs of BPD and I have to say that I wholeheartedly agree that it’s not fun to actually be involved with one. I tried to be patient and understanding but honestly if the ex is in denial of his illness it’s a lost cause. Too many times I’ve been the emotional punching bag for his own internal issues. The anger and outlashes that come from his insecurity and need for validation made me sick because he hardly ever wanted to show appreciation for me. And in times when I needed him he was always too busy or too self absorbed. Being in involved with a BPD is like being involved with a child. The manipulation they use to make you feel Sorry for them is draining. They are paranoid and li e in a fantasy world when they don’t get their way. They like to project their unhappiness with themselves onto you and make you feel like you did something horrible. My ex was horrified about judgments of others. So much so that he ended our relationship because he feared what his family and friends would think of HIM. Everything was about HIM. Ask him to think about my feelings and he’d tangent off on something else to deflect his anger. He’s 50 years old but emotionally acts like a 10 year old. When he feels his comfort zone of masked beliefs are in danger of being revealed, he shuts down. And how the heck are you suppose to communicate with someone like that to work thru issues and build a relationship? Being in a relationship with a BPD is torture unless they are acricket getting professional help. I’ve realized that there’s no helping him by myself.
      After he broke things off he was a total jerk. He was actually decent and good when we were together but one day he decided he couldn’t do it anymore. He couldn’t face his guilt and shame and anger and the what ifs and the judgments of family and friends, which was only in his head. After we broke up I was cordial to him because we work together. But anytime I’d say a simple HELLO….he’d accuse me of wanting him back. Excuse me? Full of yourself much??? He’d do this to me several times a week. He’d blow up and say I was in denial and try and pick out anything he could think of to paint me BLACK. Some of his accusations were from left field and it was like I was talking to a stranger. From one day he’s saying he loved me to a few days later he’s kicking me down whenever he gets the chance. Then the whole hot and cold treatment from him was unbearable. And when I used to ask what was wrong, he’d actually like I was crazy.
      He was the one who wanted to be friends but I think he just wanted to have a safety net because he knows his decision making skills as of late hasnt been the best. Mostly due to his uncontrollable desire to seek approval from family and friends. I told him he had issues and repeatedly told him his actions and words to me were abusive in a sense. He acted like I was talking in a foreign language. I thought to myself, how can he not see what he’s been doing? But then it kicked in that he’s so in denial of his own flaws and he needs someone to dump his anger on to.. It makes me sick that he acts totally put together in front of everyone when really he is very broken. He is selfish. Every word that comes out his mouth is about himself. He acts like he hates me although I did nothing wrong. I told him I wish him happiness and healing several times but he insists I want him back. I won’t lie, I still care for him, but I told him I can’t be with someone who can’t control his emotions and blames me for his unhappiness. Nor can I be with someone who cares more about judgments of others more than his love for me and the relationship. He of course called me a liar and then a few weeks later he tells me he’s interested in someone. I told him I was happy for him and he lashed out and said I was in denial and wanted him back and thats the only reason WHY I’m cordial. OMG! GET OVER YOURSELF BUDDY! He called me to argue and get me to admit I wanted him but I didn’t budge. He spent an hour talking about himself and then trying to point fingers at me for non related things and when I wouldn’t respond he got pissed and blamed me for his new interest being angry at him for being late to meet up. Really? He was the one who kept contacting ME! THE next time I saw him he was all bitter and said that his need interest was mad at him and was worried that we work together and we still talk. I was surprised he even told her about us since he never told ANYONE about us for the three years we were together. Guess he needs someone else to fill his void and be his security blanket since I’m not playing anymore. I told him I don’t care if she’s worried cuz it’s not my problem. I told him I hope he’s happy and that she fits the mold that he THINKS his family and friends would be happy with….Yes family and friends. HE got enraged and said if I were his friend I’d be happy for him and understanding. HELLO!!! It’s like he only wants to hear what he wants. I JUST wished him happiness. I pointed it out and of course, he said I was in denial and wanted him. Yes, it’s getting old! My words to him was that if he were a friend, he wouldn’t be treating me the way he has been since he broke you with me and that he wouldn’t be ashamed of me(he gets paranoid if he tells me HI at work because he believes people are watching and laughing behind his back). He was quiet. I then suggested he seek professional help!

      I don’t wanna bash BPD peeps but I can only speak from my experience. And reading this blog has helped me to see that I’m not the crazy one! Maybe crazy for actually trying to be cordial….

  26. Karen said

    Oh technology has failed me sorry for repost of sentiments, or early onset dementia…

    • Karen said

      Also, it’s not that I have zero compassion for the friends and family of the bpd sufferers, as with every illness, the pain is never exclusive to the patient. In fact they quite often bear the brunt of all the pressure and stress that come with the illness. I have both been through depression myself and in my recovery helped my significant other battle his mental health issues only to have him tell me that he can’t see me anymore after his recovery in the fear that if I relapse it will be detrimental to his wellbeing. We all have our own stories and pain. I bother to say this to offer others an opportunity to reconsider their generalisations, in the off chance that you do again fall for an unwell person but they are making an active effort to get better and they do, those generalisations and hardened views will not do anyone favors.

  27. naples104 said

    Karen it is unfortunate that he left you when you likely needed him the most. The goal for me when I realized that I was with a very mentally ill person was to accomplish 2 things, never to have that happen again and to find out why I chose a person that everyone around me told me not to get attached to. I so far have accomplished that goal. I believe that all people if in a relationship that is committed and the desired direction is to be monogamous and be in love… both parties have a responsible to stay mentally healthy. Getting involved with someone that is not mentally healthy,again in my opinion, means that you are not mentally healthy and trying to save someone and likely a codependent. That is what my problem was and is now under control. I will always have codependency emotional DNA but it now has boundaries. I love to make people happy and provide, but I love “me” first and all that is left goes to others.

    Tom

    • Karen said

      Tom, thanks for your thoughts. I was fully recovered long before he began to fall into self defeating mindsets and eventually self destructive behavior, I shared my experience with him because relationships aren’t just about the good stuff it’s about getting through the hard times, so it was a shock that after the hardships we’d been through and the joy we shared he left, deciding he didn’t want the responsibility of caring for someone who had depression, in his words the relationship makes him feel vulnerable and on edge. But most times we don’t get to pick the ones we fall for and there’s no guarantee they will always be healthy, mentally or otherwise, but everything comes with a price, and it’s always up to us to decide how much we are willing to sacrifice. I too have a tendency to put others before myself but that just left me burnt out dealing with everyone else’s shit that by the time I couldn’t cope I was severely depressed and felt like an utter failure. Maybe to some like me ex I will always be a broken soul he can’t risk committing emotionally to and while its upsetting and maybe even angering, I can see where he’s coming from, its valid but it doesnt make it any less hurtful. I suppose this whole overextended exchange on this post is just my wanting to let people know that not everyone who is mentally ill are doomed to never be capable or ‘eligible’ for a meaningful relationship. Of course I have a vested interest because of what I’ve experienced and of course I’m biased because I have my own values, and those values tell me that wha SD said to and about the 16 yo simply isnt appropriate. I have seen too many young people take their lives because people have told them they are fucked up and can never live like a normal person. It just isnt necessary.

      • savorydish said

        Karen,

        If you had bothered to read the rest of my blog, you would know that I have offered hope and help to many BPs here- the ones who owned up to their past transgressions and showed a sincere regret for their behavior, a sincere desire to change. That 16 yr old showed none of these signs.

        The ones who come here like screaming banshees were treated accordingly. In my eyes, there is no hope for someone who doesn’t show compassion for the ones they hurt. I am doing them a favor by splashing cold water on their face. People in denial do not respond well to gentle nudging or subtle hints. Sometimes the truth hurts. That is not a form of sadism. It is the desire to clear through the bullshit that so often comes with this disorder.

        Emotionally unstable people take their own lives all the time. They are self-destructive by nature, independent of what is said here. They were cutting their wrists long before I showed up to the scene. Society should not have to bear their excesses or tip-toe around the truth for fear they might end their lives.

        You share a lot of the same qualities as that 16 yr-old which is why you are so enamored by her. In particular, I would like to point out the hyper-sensitivity, the rush to judgement, the obsession with victimization, the black and white thinking. That makes me wonder what’s going on with you. Why do you feel the need to play the savior? What is the void that you are trying to fill?

  28. Karen said

    Savorydish, I have indeed read other parts of yourblog, which if you will kindly re-read my earlier posts mentions the same things you just said, the encouragement of BP sufferers to seek help, the kind words to those who have. In regards to the 16yo, I have said explicitly in my very first post that there is nothing wrong in your post about whether mentally ill be in a relationship, its open to discussion and I have made clear that there are definitely complications that do make commitment to a relationship for these people impossible. And accordingly I replied to this post and not the latter. my problem with you, for lack of a better word, is that you singled out a young teen who is upset because you have summarily told her she is unfit to love. Your readers who said they felt somewhat guilty is tantamount to that fact that her being upset is at the very least somewhat legit. It’s a human reaction. Sure if you deconstruct the whole bpd illness and throw in experiences with your adult relationships its a whole other story, but as I have said previously, illness isn’t a one size fits all. And contrary to what youve attributed to me, I only just said in the previous post that life isn’t black and white, mental illness isn’t the be all and end all. It’s true that some people just need a kick up the bum, because it is frustrating, if you have lived with a mentally ill brother who has been stuck in an apartment for the last 20 yrs with no job no friends, who refuses to take his meds and end up constantly taking his family out of their daily life after being arrested by police or hospitalised you would agree that I have more than enough experience with the frustration and hurt that comes with loving someone who is mentally ill. And yes for some there is no point tiptoeing around the issue, in fact these people know better than us that they have an issue, but not for a young teen. I have no idea what void you are implying I have. Maybe it’s just that I’m tired of seeing young kids die unnecessarily and it’s left an impact that makes me angry when people say things irresponsibly. If I rushed to judge its because I’m human, just as you rushed to judge that young girl whose story you couldn’t possibly know much, if anything, on. I am definitely a sensitive person, it’s what makes me particularly vulnerable to emotions but it’s also what gives me the strength to empathy. If there was anything I’m trying to achieve, I am wanting to voice a second perspective to the issue. On the other hand, this whole time you have been telling me I have a “talent”, an obsession, a void? And completely disregarded an opinion that is every bit as valid as the next persons. Your choosing to judge is perfectly normal cause we are different people, but what concerns me is that you have neglected to acknowledge all that I have said in my posts and preoccupied yourself with finding counterarguments desperately trying to prove that my view is invalid altogether.

    • savorydish said

      Karen,
      I’m not admonishing you for having a different opinion. I’m admonishing you for calling people “vultures of the internet”. You came here lashing out at people and judging them harshly. Then you expected them to welcome you with open arms.

      You seem to be upset because the girl is 16 yrs old. If she were 30, I would tell her the same thing. It wasn’t personal. I truly believe a borderline, who has zero self-awareness and no treatment, should not be in a relationship.

      Intimacy triggers their defense-mechanisms. And that causes them to treat people like crap.

      The void I speak of is the one your brother left. The reason why you are rushing to save young girls you don’t even know is because you are trying to save your brother.

      • Karen said

        Yes I judged, if it was harsh then so be it, I am upset, angry even, because precisely like you said, the girl is 16. Sure there may have been issues raised by her response that you wish to address but I felt it was inappropriate to use her as a public example given how young the commenter was. Of course it wasn’t personal, but it undoubtedly singles her out. The internet can be a ruthless place, I say you have exposed her to those dangers, not that you and your readers are cruel heartless ‘evildoers’. Contrary to what you believe, I am not here to make a ‘holier than thou’ speech or invalidate all the pain and experiences other people have been through. I am just a person who have seen too many young souls detsroyed. I did not say you are wrong that untreated bpds are unable to commit fully in a relationship. I was told by my close friend turned significant other of 5 yrs that the intimacy of our relationship makes him feel vulnerable and opted to run.I did not ask for anyone to ‘welcome me with open arms’, surely I am not delusioned enough to think that I endeared myself to anyone by saying ‘I implore you to find your humanity’. I only wish to have people consider the harm that generalisations can do. And for you SD, the harm that you could have done to that girl.She is young and unlikely to have experienced life much at all, she is still finding her feet like any other adolescent so of course there are things she doesn’t understand and that is precisely why there is potential for harm.For those who were offended by my posts, I apologize, I guess it is difficult to not be emotionally charged, and perhaps my only defense is that I am only human.

      • savorydish said

        Karen,

        The internet IS a ruthless place. Which is why it is no place for over-sensitive and melodramatic personalities.

        You and the 16 yr old should go find a blog about kittens and rainbows. And stop “stumbling” across blogs that upset you.

        You are looking for things to get upset about, Karen. That is fishy behavior. The kind that leads me to believe you were victimized at a young age.

        I have no desire to listen to you dissect every little word that we’ve exchanged or you rationalizing your over-blown reaction. These are borderline games. And I am shutting you down.

        You say you don’t have borderline tendencies. I say you need to take another look at yourself. Being human is not an excuse for acting out. I assume you are old enough to know that.

        You have just demonstrated the kind of abuse that is unique to BPD- hyper-sensitivity, being brutal while accusing others of being brutal when they react to your brutality, and zero self-awareness or willingness to accept responsibility for your own behavior.

        Which leads me to repeat my question to you- What’s going on with YOU?

        If you’re that upset, then the solution is simple- don’t read my blog. That’s how free speech works. Attempting to censor me with your irrational rants only highlights the absurdity of BPD and the people who enable BPs.

        If you don’t want me to “single you out”, don’t post on my blog. Why is that so hard for you to understand or accept? Personal responsibility.That is your word for the day.

  29. Andre Weir said

    The more I read this exchange the less I can sympathize with this blog. The tone is defensive, hostile, and damming. The responses to opposing opinions are caustic, intense, and rife with bitterness while at the same time accusing relatively rational exchanges of melodrama.

    Karen’s discussion seems MUCH more even-toned and responsible than the reactive and incendiary tactics of the author.

    An objective take. If it is perceived as a judgement so be it. If you can take into consideration your own previous experiences with BPD sufferers when making your argument then the BPD sufferer has every right to take in thiers.

    The truth is you are responsible for your own happiness, and if you find yourself in an abusive relationship, once you’ve identified the dynamic its your own damn fault if you stay.

    Blame without personal accountability only highlights part of the issue. Co-dependency is enabling abuse.

    • savorydish said

      Andre,

      Your opinion is biased for reasons only you can reveal. That will not change the tone of this blog. You can take it or leave it.

      BPD sufferers have a right to their argument. But their opinion is often tainted by unstable emotions and a distorted view of reality. That’s why it is classified by mental health professionals as a DISORDER.

      The fact that you see Karen’s attacks as even-toned, reveals your co-dependent colors and brings your own condition into question.

      You are perpetuating the myth that abusive borderlines are poor defenseless victims, when science reveals that (while they may have been victims at one time) they have morphed into personalities who are conditioned to spread their pain while clinging onto their victim status.

      This blog is filled with bitter emotions created by abusive BPs. If you can not sympathize with that, I would question your humanity as well as Karen’s. We (The Caustic and Bitter) will try to go on without your sympathy.

      This blog educates people (with co-dependency tendencies) so they can avoid abusive BPs. It also recognizes a co-dependent with biased opinions. We recognize it, because it usually comes in the form of moral indignation and melodramatic accusations.

      This blog educates with facts. If you have facts that contradict my facts, then please offer them. Otherwise, the only thing you offer is your biased and questionable opinion. Without facts, your opinion means very little here.

      Nobody here will pat you on the back for playing the white knight, because (when you have the facts straight) you are able to recognize this as co-dependent behavior. You are free to enable Karen if you wish, but you are not doing her or BPD sufferers any favors.

      When you are ready to accept the truth, maybe we can have an even-toned discussion about BPD.

    • Marie said

      Andre,
      What do you do when both your PARENTS have BPD? Is it my own damn fault I had to suffer through my childhood with them? Maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes and then get back to me I will be curious to see what you have to say afterwards.
      You want hostility, honey, you won’t get any from me but I don’t appreciate YOUR hostility. This blog has helped many and it will continue to do so. I have all the sympathy in the world for people with BPD, however, that does not mean I have to be their whipping girl nor yours either.
      If people come here to share their experiences and support each other, what is wrong with that? Most people have no idea what BPD is and when they hear stories from their friends or relatives they believe it is all lies because they have never met someone with BPD. The people here know and have experienced some of the same things and need to lean on each other to become stronger and heal their wounds.
      It is never a mistake to love someone even if they are ill. The hardest part for anyone in love is to let go…even if it is for the best. If you have ever been in love yourself you know this very well.
      Good luck to you and may you never have to suffer as those of us have suffered here. I would never wish that upon anyone no matter how unfair they may be to me.
      Marie

  30. naples104 said

    Andre, what an ignorant entry. I doubt that you know any thing anything about Cluster B disorders, how they manifest and who they affect and why. I recommend that you read this entire blog before you reach out and critique that which you know so little about, It appears that you have been coerced into writhing this to defend some one that feels they have been treated unjustly. BPD do enormous damage to everyone around them. On this blog they have been treated fairly, advised to get help and if they don’t then they are held responsible for the destruction they cause. All that I have read on here by the bloggers take full responsibility for their own issues as it relates to why they would have a relationship with a person that is so mentally ill. Educate your self before you criticize and then come back and discuss. The people that blog on here are smart and compassionate. We are dedicated to helping those that suffer from BPD and the victims of this horrible mental illness.

    Tom

  31. Karen said

    I think Karen was more so pointing out that you shouldn’t be singling out the 16 yo because of her experience with patients (of hers?) than anything…..

    • chump said

      In a nutshell……it upsets me therefore you are wrong, not me. And cruel too.

      The only real relationship my ex had was with herself and even that was flawed.

      • Matthew said

        Hmmm…More like a discussion that ceased to be productive because neither side could reconcile their views with the other. Blogs can be useful outlets, but such aggressive exchanges can be unhealthy, patient or carer. I really hope your readers are seeking professional help as well.

      • savorydish said

        Or they can be enlightening to passerbys.

        Aggressive exchanges are inevitable when you consider how much harm is done in such relationships. The amount of harm is evident in these comments.

        You may look down upon us but you are only illustrating how little the world knows about these toxic relationships.

        We are doing what we can to deal with the toxic residue. Your comments are not helping people heal. You are merely diminishing the pain others have experienced.

        Our judgement may seem aggressive but it is actually an informed judgement based on years and years of personal experience.

        Your judgement is the superficial opinion of a passerby.

  32. Sammy C said

    Amen Savory, I’ve tried to stay out of this whole thing why because I smell a rat….These people and their argument stinks with the stench of totally left brained washed enablement , I have reason to believe that the so called experts are here to save a poor little sociopath that I know , I’ll say this she’s going to drag all the Debbies , AndrĂ©’s , and Karens , to hell with her , And if you want to go to hell with her I say so be it……I”say it again thank god for this site , and You can have the lying sociopath of a ex I had , only regret I have is I didn’t dump her several time when I started to! Trying to make her lying ass out to be this big time pro , upstanding citizen, is not going to get you no where. She like to find victims , and thats all she like , Love is a pretend thing with her…….She come from a very dark pass there in the rural place where she’s from ..LOL , More sexual and physical abuse than you enablers will ever know , and she
    ‘s a total professional liar, thats all she does move from place to place lying and pretending ! …As a matter of fact , why are you people trying to help and protect a Cluster-B , whom if you ask people that really know her and they had to tell the truth , would tell you to run and fast!!!!LOL , Its a fact these things I say, I wish they were not true but they are…..To back someone who is a Sociopath a Cluster_B who I witnessed jump from one psychotic state to another over a 7 month period , There has to be something really missing in your life ….WOW!

  33. Sammy C said

    Oh and Savory the Karen and Debbies , didn’t just stumble up on this site….Thats a lie !!!!! , if you would like to know more hit me at my personal e-mail and I’ll explain!!!! đŸ™‚

  34. Sammy C said

    I stumbled up on the site just over two years ago , and was lucky to find it. Thank god for small blessings, LOL….But as you well know savory I don’y post very much anymore , too busy dating happy healthy people , tired of the sicko’s , and wacko’s of this world , See how much damage these sick cluster-b’s cost , They lie and lie and lie , and have people who don’t even know each other at each others throats! Only to cover up their lying ass trail ! again WOW

  35. Sammy C said

    And further more @ Savory Dish , You know what’s made this all so funny and comical , is that I had a bunch of relationships , and this one is the only one that’s led to crazy making , I am serious …….Trolling my Facebook , page got people watching me and the such…Which is totally foolish , Now when a person was supposed to be in a relationship with you and you find out that she was having unprotected sex with at least 4 or 5 or 6 guys , and you had to get tested for HIV because of her nasty ass , I was Negative thank god..but wouldn’t you keep and eye on that person , for several reasons . The main reason at first was anger , Thats not there anymore , But if your going to live in this city around me , friends that I know , people that I know that could run into your ass , then its my job to make sure they know who you are , and what you do. If I had beat my ex wife , she would have a right to tell people that , especially if its the truth , Thank god that I’m not that type of man , and after some time went by me and my Ex wife are friends now…Just talked with her this morning , we come together to do well by our three daughters , And Savory she had every reason to hate me cause I cheated in my marriage, But there’s no crazy making there , so why am i getting it here! , To my Cluster-B ex you are not going to silence me , And I don’t care how many people come out the wood work !!!! LOL Just remember, you are not going to get away with what you think you are going to get away with , I don’t care where you move too!!! Again I am a person with compassion , Go get help there where you live , stop lying on and to people who you meet , Its not my or any other guys fault that you had the parents you had….., I don’t know who’s to blame but innocent males who take you at face value certainly aren’t to blame , JK I hope you get “WELL” , You don’t ever have to like me thats fine , But do us all a favor and stop lying on others and using people to do violence , we have enough of that bullshit in the City of Chicago ! I thought you were at least smarter than that!!!!

  36. Driver said

    @SD and everyone else here.

    Thanks for the stories and comments. I’ve been reading this blog for a while to see if I could figure out a few things in my own life.

    I was seeing someone for 2-3 months. It was all great in the beginning. The “I love you’s” from both of us and the compliments she made about me. I was gone for a week and we texted each other every day (very much missing one another). She even said she was going crazy missing me (first flag?). Then, out of the blue after a great weekend together, I get an email from her regarding a “moment of clarity” in her life – she figured out a few things. Also, she said I was the “needy” one and she broke it off. I don’t mind looking at myself and making changes (improvements). But, when I addressed her “neediness” in the relationship she made a statement regarding “my projections” onto her and then just ignored it. (side note: I was pretty pissed. I only wanted to see her once in awhile, she was the one who came on strong, compliments, public affection and made a statement that she was single – free and clear).

    Now, her history: she was in an abusive relationship for 2 years prior to us. (She did end up going back to the abuser after we split – not sure if they’re still together today).
    She didn’t grow up with her father (or real father I should say), she has a couple of sister and I don’t know much about her mother.

    I had to work with her (after the split) and yes (if she’s a BPD) they truly will drive you crazy. She never physically abused me but I watched her at work (we worked together) when she would throw a tantrum (usually about a simple situation, policy, procedure or other) and only when I as involved. A situation where adults would usually talk it out or solve the problem…she would throw a tantrum (rant and rave – like a teenager).
    Each time I tried to address something regarding her (her actions, her emotions) she would respond “that’s different”, act like it was acceptable or ignored it. But everyone else (their actions, emotions, etc…) needed to be addressed. Deflect much?

    She still wanted me to be there for her when she was emotional. She came to me a couple of times crying over this or that. It was often a case where you didn’t know what kind of day it was going to be “walking on eggshells” (other people mentioned it to me as well at work). I tried to be cordial and professional but the whole situation was a mess (stress from work and other things in my life – now her with her ups and downs). There was a couple of days that I had to go “no contact” with her at work (just to have a mental break from her). She came to me (angry), was very short and asked “why the treatment”? I told her I was very busy, other things (I just needed a break from her). She just didn’t get it…it always seemed to be about her. She needed attention (I guess). She always interrupted any conversation that I was having with another female coworker (center of attention?). I noticed that happening a lot…she would interject herself into the conversation.

    Sorry for rambling so long. I no longer work at that company and we’ve had no contact for 5 months, now. I was at the point where I was going to snap (too much stress from work itself, other things..and dealing with her at work). But it seems like she just didn’t care…she only cared about her (and her well being).

    One more thing. She was painting her new place and mentioned it (to me and everyone else at work). I told her to ask me like an adult if she wanted help. I’d help her (no problem) and I told her I would…but I wanted her to ask me (and not try to “con” me into it). She never asked; I never helped. I noticed her acting out (emotions) whenever she needed help..not really asking for help if she needed it (arrested development?).

    So, based on her behavior and history (i.e abandon father, abusive relationship, rarely apologized if at all, rarely showed gratitude, could not ask for help, attention seeking) I could say that she may a BPD and/or have other tendencies.

    Thanks for reading.

    • naples104 said

      Driver, she may have issues, but a BPD, I am not sure. The real issue is, if you dont see your self with this woman, why continue? Borderline people are mirror images of what you want from a love stand point love from your relationship with your same sex parent as a child and did not receive. Yiu may have a fear of abandonment that results from arrested development when you were very young. I know this sound weird, but look up the attachment theory. You may be a co-dependent and that makes you highly susceptible to people with mental illness like BPD’s or people that suffer from Cluster B personality disorders. I suggest that you drop this relationship and find a counselor that specializes in codependency and regression analysis and discover what ever issues you may have and learn about you. Then decide if she is worth engaging with.

      Tom

      • Driver said

        Thanks, Tom. We are no longer see each other…been out of that relationship for awhile, now. I think I am more like SD when it comes to “something is just not right with the relationship”..I’m more curious as to what was really going on because it didn’t seem normal (like any relationship from the past). I’ve been educating myself quite a bit since then so I can watch out for these flags in the future.

        She was no good for me..so she’s out (that was a no brainer, really).

        I appreciate the feedback. Many thanks.

        Driver

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