Ave Maria

November 29, 2012

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Not all borderlines are assholes. Not all borderlines live in denial. Some, like Maria, are heaven-sent:

Hello I have BPD and I was diagnosed 8 years ago. My father has it as well but it is undiagnosed and he refuses to believe in psychotherapy in general (he’s 75). I am sorry because you are all correct in your assessment of us. I have been in therapy for years and I fully take responsibility for my behavior.

I try very hard to keep in under control and I decided years ago that in order to save my loved ones from grief and keep myself from exploding, I would have to do three things, live alone and not marry, and never have children.

I realize these are extreme measures but they have helped me greatly keep it under control and not hurt my loved ones. I have also maintained a long term relationship and have kept the same job for 9 years.

I believe these “rules” should be used by other BPD’s, as extreme as they are. I know it will be with me for life so I am trying to minimize huge events/life experiences, what have you, that most BPD’s cannot handle in an adult and mature manner. I will probably get a lot of negative feedback but I think my rules would be helpful for many BPD’s.

Sadly, not all borderlines have the courage to take responsibility for their behavior. My borderline-ex was one of these cowardly souls. She chooses to live a lie. She chose to get married and pull someone into her misery. She thinks she will cure childhood trauma with internet fame. It’s sad really. Do we blame this on her disorder? Her upbringing? Her denial?

But then Maria comes along and shows us that you can have the same disorder and make all the right choices. Thank you, Maria. You have restored my faith in humanity.

31 Responses to “Ave Maria”

  1. SAMMY C said

    Amen to that @ Savory Dish , and Maria . I wish the person that hurt me had a well thought out plan like this. It would have saved me a lot of pain, And it would save others pain as well , instead she just continues to move from victim to victim every few months , like a fresh start each time is going to bring some new cure for her crazy foolish self.

    • SAMMY C said

      OHH let me add , That While I hate to say this I must be honest in all my story telling of this person , and the dealings with her. That said she is aware enough to have birth control where she can’t have children ..I think they call it a IUD ….And she did tell em that she didn’t want to be married but the reason she gave for this was . and I quote …”MY GAY FRIENDS are not allowed to get married there for I can’t do it .” end quote. And she moves from one sex partner to another most while she is professing her undying love to the guy she’s with at the time . Te all of a sudden the at a bar or out to dinner with some Joe who seems to be about to give her the Narcissistic supply that she need . and wham she splits the boyfriend black , while idealizing the new one . . But she tell you a made up story of some sort…..Its just never ending drama. She has unprotected sex with these fools on the first night …I mean WOW

  2. Lauri said

    You’re right not all people with borderline are assholes. I have borderline and Im seriously not a ass hole. I do have empathy for other people I truley care about other people. Im always doing for others before my self. Im a people pleaser.

    Im not abusive I may get angry and yell yes but Im not abusive and can be needy too. Just because a person with borderline wants to get married it doesnt mean they are doing it just to hurt the other person. The only reason Im scared to be in a relationship with a guy is because Im afraid it will all be fake and he will leave me one day. I also am scared to be in a relationship because Im very needy and emotional and I dont think a guy can handle that. Again not every borderline is the same. Im not violent Im not abusive.

    I dont know if Ill ever get married because of my fear of getting too close and then geting hurt by them if they leave me. Im scared to be in a relationship also because Im scared of geting hurt. Yes I do want to be married one day and its not to hurt them. I also want kids and I hate with a passion the stigma with borderline saying that borderline mothers are eviel abusive not caring and so on. I can honestly say I am not that stigma I have animals right now that are my kids and yes I have borderline but Im not a abusive mother uncaring. Im a very caring compassinate mother I put there needs first. I will act the same way with my human kids one day.

    People need to know not all borderlines are the same. Not all borderlines are evil mothers towards their kids.

    • savorydish said

      I don’t think it’s wrong for borderlines to want to get married or have children. But I do think they should think of the consequences of their actions before they rush in.

      If they have a history of being abusive towards loved ones… if they have a history of splitting… then they need to take this into consideration.

      You are responsible for the well-being of your loved one.

      You are holding their heart in your hands. If you have a pattern of emotionally harming people you care about then chances are intimacy is your trigger.

      The responsible thing to do would be to abstain from relationships, until you can disarm your responses. If you don’t think you will ever change or don’t want to change, then you should never ever be in a relationship.

      Love is a responsibility. You are not entitled to it. You earn it.

      • savorydish said

        I, myself, find myself in a relationship at this very moment. And to be honest, I don’t know if I should be in a relationship.

        Because of my relationships with irresponsible borderline women, I am damaged goods.

        An untreated borderline carries with her an unimaginable amount of pain. That pain is easily transferred to those closest to her.

      • Sammy C said

        Congrats @SavoryDish on your new relationship , Man I was so happy to kinda get back most of my barrings , until I just see different women …I have always known that fools rush in ..and this BPD/NPD person cost me a lot of pain that I don’t want to experience again anytime soon.

        Sammy

      • savorydish said

        Thanks Sammy.

        It’s not ideal, but it works for now. Just trying not to repeat the past.

    • Sinn said

      Don’t think I’m bashing you, but your response underlines completely why the thinking of some BPDers is dangerous. Yes, you have pets, and would never think to harm them, which you feel makes you able to withstand the frustrations inherent in parenting. The thing is, you know those animals cannot express opinions and isn’t a threat to leave you for something you can perceive as YOUR FAULT. They depend on you and you have a pretty CoD relationship.

      Humans are very dynamic, but dependable, unless they are taken advantage of a few too many times, to which is the BPDers hallmark accidentally. Again, your worst fear is to have a man you love leave you, so you inevitably cause that or prepare for it (if not you, then other Borderlines) in a very self and dual destructive fashion.

      Another huge red flag is the admission that you’re a “people pleaser”. This sets you and your non relationships up for so much peril and drama it’s ridiculous. First, you are a people pleaser, so you do take your cues from those outside of yourself to a stronger measure than you do yourself. Since a lot of a BPD r/s involves mirroring the people you identify with, you become or try to become more of what you’re trying to please, which can be completely opposite to what you both were and what your r/s partner expected. HUGE RED FLAG.

      Second, you are setting yourself up for constant martyrdom, which is devastating to your partner as you put yourself completely out, knowing you’re going to (in most cases) be taken either for granted or advantage of. Both my ex and mother were like that (non diagnosed BPDers, but I would bet my life they were) and both made me the blame for the lack of control they had for their own situations, simply b/c I listened to what they were going through and gave my opinions on escaping or had their back. In essence, I took responsibility simply for being the shoulder these martyrs cried on.

      My ex never asked for a day off, even with the stress of the work, combined with the Lebanese heat made her physically ill. It took two months for her to receiver her first check, which avg 2 bucks American. Her mom complained for weeks about taking a temporary underpaying typing job for a relative. My mom did the same in child care as well. People pleasers go out of their way to not rock the boat and take it out on the people they have the power to later. I’m a people pleaser at times, but I can say no and walk if I’m not getting the respect, treatment, or pay I expected. A martyr will take it to feel superior to those who don’t have what they have, even if it’s an illusion.

      Stay away and keep away from a BPDer that’s a people pleaser, BOTTOMLINE. If my ex had more guts, we’d still be together. She cried in front of bosses over little problems we had (even if she magnified them per the disorder, it was pretty low rent to get people who are ACTUALLY USING YOU involved). She NEEDED, as well as my mum, the approval of others. She deferred to them when the temptation to cheat was there, and that temptation WAS ONLY BECAUSE I TOOK THE HIT FOR BEING THE BRAIN/BALLS IN HER SLAVERY. She claimed me stressing her to get days off made it all worse so the new guy got all the fun time, I got the relationship/EMOTIONAL/health ruts, that I loved b/c she was mine and I was there for her.

      But with Borderlines, it doesn’t really matter. She was able to create a delusion that I’d used her the whole relationship, when she made many opinions/decisions with only little input from me. Until a borderline is able to accept the consequences of their actions themselves like adults, they should really avoid relationships past casual friendship. People try to handle their own responsibilities…and attempt to have the back of others, but the BPDer proves with their lack of loyalty and need to please EVERYBODY NEW, that they’re the greatest LIABILITIES on this planet.

      You really can’t heal the emotional scars they give you.

      The ex was warned repeatedly and we saw the effects of her lack of sleep (I heard untreated BPDers have probs with this). When it started flying off the handles earlier, we knew the patterns from earlier. Why couldn’t it happen in Lebanon?

      • Sinn said

        Again, the worst part about BPD is that they’re emotional CHILDREN. I’m sorry to stress this, but this is what you have to know. If they’ve done something bad, they WILL HIDE from you instead of working it out unless it is truly beneficial that they resolve the conflict. Unfortunately, the honeymoon period is so long that by the time you get to the point where they have to act as you’re their parent instead of a confidant/lover/friend/nearly unconditional love, you are nearly finished as a new delusion (or a delusion to facilitate a negative action) has been cemented.

        It’s just way to quick and easy for them to detach and pick up another toy that it makes being with them the most irrelevant and time-wasting thing on Earth. Again, you are blindly investing (AND A LOT OF INVESTMENT) into what should normally be a lifelong friend at least, to find them as your enemy, using the most shallow, ficikle items of your character and r/s history to justify some of the most despicable actions known to the soul. This is why borderlines are so dangerous. Today is my birthday, so I’m going to stop from a full on analysis, but expect it soon. I’ve read and experienced enough and my current situation puts me at a point where I’m reading old messages we’ve shared FOR COMFORT (you don’t wanna know, but it’s temporary).

        So I know how we got here, and I know my borderlines and why they persist and act the way they do. I actually found one of my friends was dating a callous borderline and formulated a strategy to regain his manhood….IT WORKED COMPLETELY. They try to act like individuals, but they ARE ALL THE SAME. I’m sorry to say when they’re raging/acting out/being deceitful/callous. He actually bought me a TON of drinks and called me a guru for my help in dealing with his. It’s just sad that I want it so bad to be sane for this one individual…I would do ANYTHING so that she’d mix logic into her emotions, but afraid she never can and the ease to just grab someone to replace me when things get SLIGHTLY difficult, because of her need to try to feel “independent” while being a PEOPLE PLEASER ruins everything everytime. You can’t be both…be a slave or a slave working to be a master or independent, but no way you can attempt both. Borderlines tease to try to win it all and they FAIL EVERYBODY constantly. Bottom line.

  3. Flopsy said

    I wish more BPD’s could have the insight, courage and resolve of Maria.

  4. Flopsy said

    SD I wish you the best in regards to your new relationship. You have great insight and can make it work.

    • savorydish said

      Thanks, Flopsy.
      But I owe it to this person to be honest with myself. She is such a kind and loving person, but I have already seen her other side. She is no where near as screwed up as the last one, but enough for me to tread cautiously.

      It is official- I attract traumatized women. They feel safe with me. She told me so. The question is- do I want to make it work?

      She tries. They all try. But at some point they give up or do not realize the depth of their wounds. When she realizes that I am not as in love with her (as she is with me), she will flip out and cut me out of her life. She has shown me this side already.

      It does not look good. Sometimes, insight is not enough.

      • Flopsy said

        SD it sounds like you already know where this is going. It is a familiar path, which is unfortunate. Hopefully this time you’re wrong and this relationship works out. I have’nt had as much experience has you with BP’s but I know I could smell one a mile away now. I wish you luck!

  5. toughmat said

    Guys, its been awhile. SD has not been posting as much either so I can use that as an excuse…I kid. The truth is i have been hoovered back by my ex. I cant believe it. We are still not official, and we are “just dating” and I only see her 2-3 times a week now. We are not even friends on facebook (which to her is probably very meaningful) and we dont say I love you like we used to. I cannot believe I allowed even this to happen, but i guess I am not ready to move on. You all could have probably seen that in my posting nature previously. Is there shame? Absolutely. Confusion? You better believe it. I am scared….I am in therapy 2x a week, one who is a very trained man with borderline women…he is so accepting of my desires though. But he keeps it real. My friends are giving me a hard time and just ripping on me with jokes, I take it but it is not easy. She is in therapy with a good therapist, one who i have seen a few times myself at her request (before she split me black and told me not to ever contact her). I have already seen me go from idealized to devalued. In the morning the other day I Was helping her because she has health problems and I was the white knight. Later in the day old shit was brought up about how I ALWAYS put my friends first and I told her its hard to have a conversation with someone who uses the terms “always” and “never” and “ever”. Then she asked me why I am subscribed to so many attactractive fitness women on facebook. I checked in front of her- I am subscribed to one who is a mutual friend. Big deal. Then I asked so what if I was and I looked at their pics? She said she wouldnt want to talk to me. I just laughed. Then I was the man again after dropping her off. with her flood of nice texts.

    So I will say I am grateful to all of the previous support, and I am sorry I couldnt take the great advice to good use. I am back, and I feel sort of happy to have parts of her that i love, but I feel trapped and humiliated by my own actions. She has shown some progress, but 4 months of therapy dont fix years of abuse and weirdness…

    SD, I wish you luck in your relationship.

    Everyone else, I hope you are all doing well. I really hope this time things are crystal clear…but i keep thinking that will make it easier.

    • Flopsy said

      Toughmat please tread carefully . Thanks for the good wishes. I noticed SD wasn’t posting much either, I conjectured he was in a new relationship (;

    • savorydish said

      Thanks Mat,

      You’re right. 4 months of therapy does not fix problems that have been with her for a lifetime, but it is a start. Just know it will be a long and bumpy road. Good luck.

    • Sinn said

      Didn’t she accuse you of stalking her? Who reached out first? How did you go from that amount of vitriol to that level of conversation/relationship?

    • Sinn said

      And yeah, I never got the ALWAYS and NEVER stuff either. Just thought it was a British thing as we’re from diff countries. If I actually knew she would believe that crap, things could’ve been a lot different. I think you can actually have a successful relationship with a borderline, but you have to know they are before you get into the relationship and be VERY intuitive and empathetic. I was so, and it was, by far, the best relationship I’ve had. They just need to know you care, and you have to know their LANDMINES, which is almost impossible as sometimes it’s camo’d in childish stuff.

      • Sinn said

        One landmine is to NEVER EVER threaten to leave your Borderline!!! I know this is usually used successfully, by both men and women, as a behavior modification tactic, as it should be as you love the person and don’t want to just lose the r/s over things that are getting critical but can be changed. A borderline only hears sirens in their heads when you do this. I have never heard as many screams or saw as many tears as when I’ve had to try this.

        You have to be so smart, patient, and compassionate to be with them it’s insane. I do believe, again, it is possible to have a successful r/s with them if you know they are BPD first and love the person b/h the disorder and ignore the gaslighting, crazymaking, and what triggers them…and that means you have to be friends first. Sex pretty makes everything ulterior, which is kind of like a wall to a BPDer as they train themselves to eventually not trust you…even if they start off the exact opposite.

        It’s the weirdest kind of r/s’s you can have, but I was forced to be a friend more than a sex buddy due to how we met and it proved to be my favorite and best one, until the end. Pure honesty, was able to be free w/myself and emotions and a whole lot of other bonuses, even as their rages break up the harmony if it gets too great. IDK, I know people will hate me for saying all of this and staying in the fog, but I just want that PERSON back. I’m sure it wasn’t ALL an illusion. Everyone hoovered back GOOD LUCK.

  6. Sinn said

    I am very sorry that you have to live this way Maria. Yeah, I believe my BPD ex was completely overwhelmed by going to a Mid Eastern country and having to work for such a low wage, not paid on time, and take care of three preteens. She needed an escape, but she immediately started thinking she was better than everyone else, which was completely out of her character, although everything was still in check, and then she just…changed, and destroyed our future w/in a blink of an eye.

    I didn’t know big experiences triggered it so much as the constant attention that BPDers need that the non just can’t support alone, although they want to…they really do. It’s just sad that an extremely beautiful thing can just be made to nothing, and a true best friend (I believe she was completely real and honest w/me before going to Lebanon) can turn into your worst enemy overnight.

    I do not think she mirrored me as melded with the amalgamation of all of her experiences and grafted them into mines as there were many thing she knew, even being younger, that I didn’t. I do think she might have gotten these by mirroring others, but she was shyish but extremely intelligent, but a waif. It’s just when things get so bad so quickly, and she brought another man into my life, when all we needed was a break as we’d been chatting near non-stop and being extremely intense; everyone around her just acted like doing this in an engagement was normal, and so a delusion was made out of it. It’s sad when you never get a chance to fight for the most important thing in your life AT ALL…when all they pretend to do (or do) is fight for you.

    Again, I am truly sorry for your burden, and thanks for sharing your story w/us.

  7. Tough mat said

    Ya she was. She reached out to me. It’s just crazy. She can be so cool sometimes and then ther are those aspects to her. I am embarrassed how fast I got sucked back into being exclusive. It’s like I just couldn’t take the pain of not being with her. I keep telling myself things like its good to know for sure or try one last time etc to calm down but I am in a low grade panic and frustration that won’t go away. I love her but its different now. I can’t get over all the drama and having been split even if it was a short time.

  8. Tough mat said

    At the same time I want to meet other women and now I can’t and I am worried ill never be able to leave if I know it’s the best because of fearing the pain. I hope I am wrong and things will truly become clear and obvious. I think part of that is always reminding myself its a lot of bs and how fast things can turn sour. Pain is inevitable right? I am just delaying, perhaps.

    • Nicholas said

      @toughmat. You’re not gonna like this buddy…
      I went back to my BPD after she cheated on me. It appeared she was remorseful. We went to therapy and she appeared to be remorseful. APPEARED being the key word. I had to end the relationship because I FINALLY saw how truly fucked up she is. She pursued me like crazy. The last time she called was on Thursday. I don’t answer her calls. She emails me constantly. Now she’s telling me not to tell anyone about what a psychotic asshole she was to me. She has ZERO character or integrity.
      I want to let you know that no matter how things turn out, if you end up apart again, you CAN get through it. I am. And it was so bad at the beginning I actually contemplated suicide. That’s how much it hurt. Every time they reject you it feels worse and worse. You are worth being truly loved and adored by a good woman. That’s what is waiting for you out there when you decide to make room for it. You are worth real love, and you certainly have it to give!!!

    • Sinn said

      You have to just take it slow. BPDers move hot and cold and no middle when triggered, so you know this is coming. Yes, I could probably be with any woman under 8 on scale I wanted, but just want the friendship me and the ex have. Plus, the curse of the borderline is that you learn so much about them to just get betrayed, you really don’t want to get that deep into another person, seriously. I don’t think that’s fair to skim potentials, but that’s all I got right now emotionally.

  9. toughmat said

    @Nicholas
    I really appreciate your kind words. My girl always preaches how she would never cheat. She is extremely loyal, almost to a fault. She doesnt really go out with friends of hers. Its hard to explain…a few weeks ago I explained how I like my space and I am kind of in my own world and I hate to be checked up on. She said that we are very different- that to her, more time and space leaves room for more lies. She was cool about it but still. I have to say she is a good communicator sometimes..unless she feels hurt. Just yesterday she asked me if I was looking at someone checking them out..,.she was light hearted about it compared to times in the past and she was right I was glancing at this gorgeous woman…but it still gets annoying. She has been very wrong in the past so I just denied it and tried to act like she was nuts. I think all of this creates the eggshells effect…a lifestyle I hate but one I am apparently choosing for myself. how did you FINALLY see? I think I have seen, but I am too tolerant. Or too desperate for her for her good stuff.

    • Nicholas said

      I just had a final moment of clarity and a second of strength, and acted on it. Her mother is even more fucked up than she is, and would cut her daughter, or anyone else out of her life if they did things she didn’t like or approve of.
      In march of last year Tasha and I had a fight. She was BPDing on me, and I was so exhausted abs stressed that I cancelled a trip and asked her to leave my house so I could get some sleep as I had a big day that started early with my kids. She left and called her mother, who reacted by banning me and my children from her house.
      Well, Tasha and I were planning on moving in together, and she and her mother decided we should make up. It didn’t go well. I basically had to sit and listen to everything Karen said, but when it was my turn to speak, she tore me to pieces. Tasha said either I repaired things with her mother, or she couldn’t be with me. I tried, and her mother blocked me on Facebook (this is a 56 year old woman we’re talking about here). I knew that this would happen because Karen hadn’t wanted Tasha and I to be together for some time. I asked Tasha what was going to happen if her mother rejected my attempts to reach out, and she said “well, I guess that means you haven’t tried hard enough” remember that it was Karen rejecting me, not the other way around. Typical twisted BPD thinking. After her mother rejected my attempt, Tasha called me and I asked her what she was going to do now. She said “I don’t know” it all became crystal clear in that moment. She was getting ready to split me black. She was backing me into a corner so she could justify dumping me again. I realized that the flaming hoops were just going to keep coming, and that she had no intention of ever really committing. In that moment I said “I’m done” and I’ve never looked back despite the pain, despite her twisted attempts to Hoover me. She even used my kids. And hers. And her ex. Here are some emails she sent:

      My dearest Nicholas,

      I can’t believe you are not a part of my life. I miss you so much. I
      can’t eat well, I can’t sleep well, it has hurt to breathe and I am
      crying everyday. I have been pushing forward as I do, but it is not
      easy.

      I feel all kinds of things. Anger. Unconditional love. Shock.
      Empty. Hopeful. Longing…. I want to hold you in my arms, climb on
      top of you, kiss your mouth so sweetly.

      Now you are looking for someone else to do that for you.

      My body and mind are trying to rationalize such a loss. You told me
      that I have never experienced my heart breaking. And if there was
      ever a question, there isn’t anymore.

      Have you moved on already? Are you already chatting up someone else?
      Getting excited about prospects?

      I was going to marry you. I wanted to raise our children together.
      Travel. Build our life. I can still feel the ring on my finger
      although it is not there.

      I wish you well, but I miss you so much.

      You know?, you asked me to talk to Anya. She needed reassurance that
      I was not going to hurt you that way anymore. She saw how much pain
      you were in. In order for her to trust me, I needed to change, and
      also to talk to her. To reassure her. I needed you to do that with
      my parents.

      I’m not embellishing when I say that I wish you well. I really do. I
      just don’t know how I am going to go on without you. My arms hurt for
      you.

      I have been thinking about your children. I don’t want to just
      disappear from their life. I briefly saw Ezra at school when i
      picked up Frankie one day. Class was in session and it happened fast,
      but he saw me and then quickly looked away. I don’t want your
      children to feel like they can’t say hi to me or feel glad to see me.
      I was wondering about coming to see them? Talk to them and tell them
      that I love them and that it is okay for them to feel like they can
      say hi to me, or wave, or even hang out. If Anya ever needs help with
      anything, like sewing, or the Christmas craft fair, or whatever, I
      would love to do those things with her. Please let me know if there
      is a way. My heart is missing them too.

      Love Tasha Mae

      Hi Nicholas,

      I would really like that poster back that Frankie made, can you please
      drop it off at the credit union on Thursday? I won’t be there.

      Goodbye Nicholas, there is nothing left other than that picture at
      your home, and you do not want any contact at all. I finally gave
      Eden and Frankie your letters. Eden hugged his. He misses you, but I
      think it is weird for him to branch away from me to go to see you. A
      bit confusing. I think it is hard for them to understand why you are
      just completely gone from our life. Eden asked me if I was ever going
      to see you again. Frankie wouldn’t read her letter. I think she was
      really affected. When I asked her about why she didn’t want to open
      the letter she said “I don’t know.” Then I asked if she missed you.
      She said yes. She also has been asking everyday if she can see
      Shelby. I have told her that she can phone you to see him. She may
      sometime.

      I won’t be writing you any more emails, just please drop off that picture.

      Thank you,

      Love Tasha

      Hi Nick,

      I have yet to hear a response from you from my original email I sent yesterday. I feel disappointed that you are treating me with such a lack of respect when what I thought was you actually cared about me.

      Please refrain from talking openly about me and my family to everyone you see. I know you love to talk freely with anyone, but as I’m sure you are smart enough to know – there is more to it than just your version. Even when you think you are being fair and diplomatic, I have witnessed myself that in fact you are still putting a spin on things to maintain your side of things.

      Please stop talking about me and my family. Please do not talk to Brian if he approaches you if you have any ounce of respect for me. If not, then please, for Frankie and Eden.

      Can you please at least indicate wether you received this email?

      Thank you,

      Tasha

      Begin forwarded message:

      From: Brian Pothier
      Date: November 27, 2012, 12:50:03 PM PST
      To: Mae Bell
      Subject: Re: Honesty

      Tasha
      Nick is talking to people and more than one person has approached me to offer there condolences on how I’ve been treated by you and your family. I do intend to speak with him when I see him.
      Also Tasha I always speak openly with my friends about what is going on in my life with no intent on hurting you in any way.

      On respect. Can you respect our children’s wishes to spend more time with me and start making changes that benefit our whole family? Also I would like to mention I encourage the children to phone you and say goodnight when they are with me. Could you also encourage the children to phone me rather than try to rush them off the phone when they do?

      My advice on POF is sincere. I have been off and on the site many times. An easy topic of conversation on a first date is POF. I’ve heard many times about the array of messages women receive. I’ve shared my tactic of hiding my profile and only sending messages to people I am interested in many times. The advice is always appreciated. Though I suppose if everyone did this nobody could see anybody.

      Hope this clears things up for you.
      Brian

      On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Mae Bell wrote:
      Can you explain to me what Brian might mean by “at least Nick is being honest these days”?

      Have you spoken with him? Or are you just speaking openly with everyone in a manner that is going to hurt me in ways such as this?

      Please at least have the respect to provide me with a response to this one?

      Tasha

      On Nov 26, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Brian Pothier wrote:

      > Tasha
      > Your POF profile is showing, “honesty” that’s pretty funny. At least Nick is being honest these days.
      > Here’s a tip. To avoid unwanted messages from shirtless losers hide your profile and only send messages to people you’re actually interested in. That way only people you message can see you. The link is easy to find in the Help section.
      > Brian

      She’s on plenty of fish already. It’s only a matter of time before she tries to Hoover back in the guy she had the affair with. She’s disturbed. They all are. You can either choose yourself, and go through the necessary pain, or keep choosing her and eventually there will be nothing left of you. They don’t understand commitment or love or character or honesty or integrity. They only understand manipulation and selfishness. I really hope you choose what you know is best for you. I’m not waking on eggshells anymore, and it’s great. The drama is gone from my life. I ignore any and all attempts at contact. It’s getting better every day. I know she’ll be screwing someone else (over) very soon, and I feel so sorry for the guy, but there’s nothing I can do. You can do something though, you can finally choose health. I’ll be here if you need support as will many others. It just takes that first step.
      And, by the way, it’ll be WAY easier if YOU end it rather than allowing her to dump you again. Trust me, I know whereof I speak.

      • Flopsy said

        Hi Nicholas, so much drama! BPD’s are exhausting, relationships need work but they take it to another level. I have had three months of no contact at first it was hard. But I took SD’s advice and started to re-discover the things I liked before that nightmare entered my life. I don’t crave him anymore , I think my addiction is over. Good luck with your ex, having kids makes breaking completely almost impossible.

  10. toughmat said

    Wow. Some similarties in writing styles and expressing, for sure. I am certain my girl has never cheated, and it has been something i do to trigger her and she storms off then verbally trashes me or feels neglected and accuses me of being selfish and putting others first. Here is a situation- all of my best friends are goign to Thailand for 3 weeks DEc 16 and I could technically go, but I am scared to now because my girl. She cant stand them and vice versa and if i go I will be considered supremely selfish and putting my friends first. We were supposed to go out of the country together in summer but broke up right before. She hoovered back to try and go but I said no and she cant stand to hear about it. I went mostly for dental work but to travel too. I was miserable there and missed her so much. So if I leave again without her she would kill me. So much stress. I am just taking it a day at ta time, but thailand is approaching and while my childhood friends are there i will be here with her. ITs not like i dont appreciate my life, but I feel trapped in my own issues.

    • Sinn said

      She hoovered you, and I’m sure she wouldn’t just wait for you to give her permission to leave. You have to go have fun, b/c the number one attack method of a borderline when the r/s is over is to call you a lonely loser, even when you are in that rut b/c they want to take every second you have out of every day. You need to go have fun and more stories to share with her.

      She has and will do the same to you, and even as payback now if you go. You have to start setting REAL boundaries if you want this to work in the long run, period. You can’t treat her as a child, or your mom or she will chew you up and spit you out as a pansy and loser and bring in a NPD dude into your life.

  11. toughmat said

    Thanks sinn. I dont know, I am really not sure how to bring it up. i just dont want to deal with bs from her about how I am selfish and I am leaving her during the holidays. She has said she wont tolerate me leaving the country again without her in the past….like she is tired of being last. My psychologist said yesterday that I should be able to go and just because I want to go and she cant doesnt mean I am selfish or a bad boyfriend…that those are her ideas placed in my head. I am trying to build up the balls to tell her but I dont know if I feel like handing more drama right now. On the flip side I will always regret not going. This is not just about the trip like I said, it is about the control I have or dont have over my own life because of a woman.

    Most likely I will end up going on a trip with her. Will it be fun? Yes. But I have to at least bring this Thailand thing up. AFter all the drama what is a little more? Welcome your advise. AGain, this is not poor Mat he cant go on a fun trip. This is damnit Mat is a bitch because he cant live his life how he wants and it is only himself to blame for feeling and being trapped.

    • Sinn said

      So how did she reach out? Was it still during a period where you were trying to communicate w/her (yeah, I’ve started trying to write mine again…I think it pushes them away as you’re on the back burner still waiting, but I just miss her too much)? I was able to do NC for 3 months but my birthday brought me back into it again…they were nice when we were together.

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