The Sympathetic Borderline

August 25, 2012

Do borderlines feel remorse? That is always a popular question around here. And the answer depends a lot on who we are talking about. Is that borderline willing to accept their disorder and acknowledge the harm they have caused others? Are they strong enough to deal with the pain that comes with this kind of shame? For many BPs, the answer is no.

Self-awareness and sympathy/empathy does not come easy with a disorder that protects itself from such things. Denial prevents many BPs from recognizing the harm they have caused others. And it also prevents the borderline from getting better. This blog has witnessed borderlines that span the spectrum from those in fierce denial to those who are more sympathetic to victims of BPD.

Meet Mickey D, she has placed herself in the latter camp. This is what she had to say:

Dear SD, I’ve spent quite some time now reading through many of these replies. I am a BPD female who has struggled for years with who I am. I’ve read a lot of anger and confusion in many of these posts.

I’m not sure this will help anybody, I can only speak for myself but…..please understand, all of you who have suffered at the hands of a BPD….it is NOT your fault. If we have split you black, it’s because we feel you have rejected us somehow, or are about to, or you might abandon us (it could be something as simple as you have lost some weight, you’re styling your hair differently…we read; he’s having an affair…twisted, I know). It is our defense mechanism.

We don’t wish to cut you off, it hurts us tremendously, it’s just that we are trying to protect ourselves from the pain of getting left behind (the same way we had to cut off our abusive parent when we were young…we had to stop loving him).

If we are angry, we hate lashing out and feel great remorse and shame for acting the way we did. We come on kind again because we want your forgiveness (at the same time hoping and praying we never act in that fashion again).

If we reject your love it’s only because we truly don’t believe people can love….we don’t even really know what it is, we go through the motions (we feel like sex is showing our love, making you breakfast, cleaning the house….is ‘love’), it’s our way of giving what we think love is.

The only true, heartfelt, unconditional love I’ve ever been able to give is for my child….it’s different….they don’t hurt us, although sometimes I feel I shut my child out of my life too….and I have to get that door opened up again. But, adults (men in particular), in my mind, have the potential to wreck our lives.

Although most of the men I’ve dated in my life have been NPD….I set myself up for abandonment, these men are not capable of giving love and they run from true intimacy….it literally drives us crazy, we desperately want the ONE person who is not capable of giving us love. And suddenly, if he did, we wouldn’t want him anymore anyway because we don’t truly believe anyone can ‘love’….it’s such a viscious circle.

Am I happy with who I am??? I think so….I try to live my life accordingly, try not to abuse people with rages and verbal attacks, everyday I have to look in the mirror and remind myself to be all I am capable of being….a good mother, a good wife, don’t isolate, stay connected (if hubby gives me a hug, don’t run, hug him back for crying out loud).

It’s not easy being BPD, and again, I’m sorry for those of you who have been abused….so many women (and I speak from the female standpoint), truly have no idea what their personality disorder is, how to control it, or contain it….so we hurt everyone around us, make you go away, then feel lonely and like hell for running everyone who ‘could have loved us’ away.

I am so sorry for the pain in each of you….I know what it feels like just from loving (er, what I perceive as love) NPD men…..it’s a pain and longing for someone to be something different than what they are…we want them to be what we feel they ‘should’ be….and somehow we feel that WE are the ones (and the only ones) who can do that for them.

It’s a hard habit to break…I almost believe it’s in our DNA….but we must continue on learning about ourselves and learning to love to the best of our abilities…whatever that means to us as an individual.

Trying to let someone go who professed their love for us and acted like they truly meant it….then they push/pull us around when they feel like it…is true hell. Find your peace, if that means going for a walk and connecting with the beauty of nature and not letting the disordered individual into your mind for 20 minutes or so…do it…now. Peace.

And this was my response:

Dear Mickey,

Thank you for your insight and words of wisdom. But most of all, thank you for showing us that (with a lot of work) Borderlines and Nons can be more compassionate towards each other.

Everything you said rings true. And yes, in some ways, we are very similar. That is what draws the likes of me to the likes of you. We are both easily pulled into “love” and we are both easily hurt. Maybe I will never know or understand the pain only a borderline can feel, but I get where it comes from. I know what it feels like to be abandoned/hurt by someone you loved and trusted.

I only wish more BPs were like you. I wish the words you sent me were sent to me by all the borderlines I have known. Sadly, you have something they do not. You have turned a corner and they are still hiding in shame and addicted to blame. So thank you for acknowledging our confusion and our anger. You are right, we all have some self-exploration to do.

You have restored my faith in women afflicted with BPD. I still believe in change. If you can do it, certainly any one of them can. But it takes the will to do it. Peace comes to those who are willing to seek it. It comes to those who are honest enough to own up to their past misdeeds. That takes true strength and true confidence. Not the comical bravado we have seen from the TigerBeatown clowns.

There have been so many BPs and BP enablers who have accused this blog of stigmatizing BPD when we only sought to tell the truth and share our stories. There have been so many raging borderlines who came here, looking to belittle survivors and diminish our pain in a futile attempt to discredit the truth.

So to have someone who has experienced BPD (firsthand) come here offering acknowledgment of that truth and words of solace is quite refreshing. Thank you. Again, I wish all BPs were like you.

SD

(To those of you from TigerBeatdown- I know you’re reading this – Garland Grey, Sady Doyle, Stephanie Hallett and Mina Jade. Read the words of Mickey D and take notes. This is how you conduct yourself like a human being. She is a class act. If there were more borderines like Micky D there would be less stigma surrounding BPD. Consider this a teachable moment.)

62 Responses to “The Sympathetic Borderline”

  1. toughmat said

    read your site often and it has helped me gain an understanding about some qualities my current ex girlfriend has, but it also leaves me confused. You see, she has been diagnosed with ptsd from past experiences with rape and abusive boyfriends (physically and they cheated) but got very defensive at my suggestion once of bpd and says her doctors laughed at that as a possibility. She suffers immensely physically from possible somatic symptoms. In her past she was abandoned and neglected emotionally and at 14 did try to kill herself. She seems very aware of things and even said she did it to draw attention understanding her mom was always occupied and her dad was on drugs and unavailable and abusive. Since then she has not tried anything with self harm as far as I know. She says it is the ptsd, and me being inexperienced in relationships which is true causing me to do stupid shit (like have eyes and look around). Her family and friends never really take my side. She doesnt have many real friends in her life as she admits she pushes them away. I have my insecurities so I told her how once I checked her facebook messages between her and her ex a long time ago. She has always been insecure about this one female friend of mine who she pretty much demanded i cut from my life and she asked me to show her the dialogue on facebook between us by giving her the FB password or she would not talk to me anymore. This is recently after we had been broken up. She promised to only read those messages but instead went on to read all of them including ones with my best friend who hates her…lots of shit talking and me talking about other women being hot. I never cheated nor tried to hit on other women with her. That is when she destroyed me on facebook as she was hurt and all of her FB friends came to her support. I am shocked no one called her out on airing her drama but she composed a brilliant post about how she loves her FB friensd and she is just being truthful and raw. They all bought it and I remained a villain. She still wanted me back a week later.
    We are both around 30 but act like 13. I lost my mom when I was 15 and I think some white knight stuff is at play but I cant imagine life without her. I am remembering the many great moments we shared. In many ways she is amazing but yes, she needs to be given tons of attention or else! She denies that to be the case. She almost has me thinking my friends of 16 years are bad people for me. My best friend sort of gave me an ultimatum since he has been the one who always listened to me stress about her when we had issues…he said its either her or him. I think he is doing it from a loving place to get me over the hump but it has caused me a lot of stress and im distancing myself from him now too. I definitely have my own issues of fear of abandonment, jealousy, and certainly love for her. Trying to walk away from someone I love is almost harder than losing my mom. The choice makes it so difficult.
    In my relationship she has been extremely loving, giving, fun, and willing to go with the flow. However, we would get into a lot of fights:
    -if I glance at a woman, possible fight or I get a huge shift in mood from her and sometimes I would ask whats wrong and she would scream …once she flipped it on me when I got upset she thought I was looking and i wasnt and she started asking about how often and to what/who i masterbate too and I was honest (and angry) and I was labeled a mental cheater -she never does she says so she does not want a guy that does, she deserves better she says
    – my friends seem to be a threat. I have some immature and difficult friends, but they are not the “dogs” she claims they are and they I dont believe they “are the reason behind all of my confusion” about her. She hates them and tells me I am better off without them. It is forbidden to think another female is attractive for a friend of mine because that means I must want to screw them according to her.
    -each time we break up she rips me apart verbally and puts all kinds of stuff on facebook- some to make me jealous I think, some to get me thinking, some to just make me look bad and all of her friends tell her “you deserve so much better” and she likes the comments. It even got to one woman calling me a “disease” (never met any of these people mind you) and she liked that one too.
    I think you guys are getting the point. We recently broke up because I felt like I was being told I dont love her enough and that I was putting everything first. I dont know, maybe she was right because my resentment grew, Idk. Its been 2 months and we have been in contact via emails mostly and I have having a horrible time away from her. I really love her and miss her. She is definitely hoovering and if it doesnt work tells me I am choosing porn and other girls and my friends over her. (jealousy). My friends are all pleading me not to go back, but my heart longs for her…it feels like I am depriving myself and preparing to go back or something. She hardly takes any responsibility for what are in my opinion push pull tactics. I am so confused. Does she have bdp? does it even matter? She is in therapy now which im happy about and part of me wants to try couples therapy with her. Am I crazy, addicted, or what? People keep saying I need to work on myself. I am in therapy 2x a week, is there anything else you suggest? Therapy seems like a very slow process. In the meantime I am obsessing over her daily and it doesnt seem to get better. Imagining me and her going separate ways feels unbearable, impossible. I dont see this feeling going away soon. Every dream is about her. Friends say I dont value myself enough and I value her life over mine, even if she is a bit of a nut. I am lost and dont know what to do. We have been hanging out as friends and she is doing minor pushes and pulls and I dont know what the fuck im doing. Please, any of your logical feedback would help!

    • savorydish said

      Mat,

      This woman is bad news. She is destroying your self-worth. She has you so addicted, you keep coming back for more. Heed your friend’s advice. Unlike Mickey D, your ex is in the active throes of BPD. She will chew you up and spit you out if you let her.

      This is not love. This is addiction. The sooner you come to grips with that, the better. A BP who splits you black will find ways to demonize you. She is replaying her past and you are being cast as the villain. If she has a history of sexual abuse, you will be put in the same category as the one who abused her. This is how the troubled mind thinks. IOW you are putting yourself at risk.

      Read Mickey’s comments and notice the tone of her voice. I am guessing your ex has none of her compassion and empathy. She lacks maturity and the years of therapy it takes to get a handle on her fits of rage. It will take years and years of therapy to get to where Mickey D is at.

      No one is capable of putting up with this kind of mental abuse. Seek help if you need it to make the break. And then do it. The longer you stay, the more traumatized you will be. You are being put through the wringer. Distance yourself from the drama today. Believe me I know what you are going through. Right now you need distance from your thoughts and your ex.

      Good luck and be well,

      SD

    • MickeyD said

      Dear Mat,

      I read your story and agree wholeheartedly with SD on this….she’s in the active throes of BPD. Although I feel I’m stepping out of my boundaries (as a BP) responding to anyone here…I understand completely the resentment runs strong, and the hurt runs deep for EVERYONE on this board…I’m completely out of my element in this forum and not even sure I should be responding at all. You are welcome to read my take on your situation, or simply keep scrolling along, I understand.

      I’m responding to yours because I see A LOT of similarities in my borderline tendencies, and those in your ex girlfriends. She sounds incredibly insecure in who she is (this comes from the years of abuse she suffered at the hands of her parents). One thing I know for a fact (because I did it too)….the quickest way to get split black is to look at, acknowledge, admire or even just mention the name of another woman. As a borderline, this was the one thing that put me into immediate, uncontrollable rage. Because we have such little self esteem, and we feel guilty (even just subconsciously) for the way we’ve treated you in the past….we assume this ‘other’ woman who looks beautiful, fresh and new is our replacement….we are completely convinced you are done with us and are trying to hook up with them. We split you black, we run to our FB wall to tell everyone how horrible you are, we pit mutual friends against you to get them on OUR side, and basically drag you through the mud until you’ve learned a lesson. Sick and sad, I know. We (slowly) take away your family and pre-existing friendships. As we get closer to those nearest and dearest to you, and they start showing signs that they don’t like us (or trust us, or whatever)…we pull away and don’t want to be near them, and take you with…afterall, if you want to spend time with us, you will need to do it away from them. You are now torn between ‘those’ people and us…take your pick. Sick and sad, I know. We do this because someone close to you (who knew you before we did), is seeing, or figuring out something about us that they might pass on to you, you might see the problem too, and then leave us. It all comes down to self preservation for the BPD.

      Anyway, the positive I do see in your ex girlfriend Mat is that she sounds more insightful than most. She admitted to acting out for attention purposes, she understands how PTSD is affecting her (most BPD’s have PTSD as well), she at least recognizes why the physical ailments are happening. She’s in therapy. She’s not self harming, etc. Trying to improve the immature behavior due to low self esteem will take a lot of therapy…..a lot. She will have to go back into what caused the PTSD and work through that trauma….never an easy task.

      I wish you well. I know how it feels to be addicted to someone (especially a personality disordered person), the obsessing over them is the absolute worst. You’re afraid to let go, but you know you can’t hang on….it sucks. It might sound lame and insignificant but what I’ve learned to do when I’m at my lowest, is start doing little things to treat myself well….go get a massage, take a nature walk and DON’T think about her, buy youself a peaceful book….eventually you start realizing there’s more to who you are, you’re worth your own time, and the drama of that chaotic relationship loses it’s place in your life after awhile. In other words….find your peace.

      MickeyD

      • savorydish said

        I’m sorry you feel out of your element here, but your input and insight are truly appreciated here. Nons like to hear a BP confirm their suspicions and BPs need to hear the truth from someone who is one of their own. Thank you.

      • Driver said

        MickeyD, thumbs up…good information!

        Thanks for staying!

  2. toughmat said

    SD,

    Thanks so much for your prompt and thorough reply. There are so many little stories I feel like telling in hopes of gaining clarity…holding myself back. I will say that I wrote that message about a week ago and lately some new stuff has went down. She has always wanted to work it out but I didnt for about 3 months after the breakup then after 7 days of no contact my fear of loss issues kicked in like crazy and I went pleading for her back. Last Sunday, she wanted to work it out again after telling me no for 4 days. I panicked and basically committed myself to a mental hospital for a night for two reasons that are pretty embarrassing 1. to buy time on my decision because she put a time constraint on it 2. she had been telling me to commit myself and i thought it would please her. She even said she is proud of my decision and loves me to my dad whom she took the initiative of emailing that i am not in good shape mentally (she is correct). The next day, she said she wants to be left alone, to move on, and that if I stalk her anymore (which yes I have and I admitted to her why..its my fear of loss) that she will have a restraining order filed against me. Her mom even emailed my dad as did she and they both expressed they want the best for me and to get better. I have not contacted her in 3 days and Im really struggling with fantasies of being with her and all of the wonderful times we have shared. I am reminding myself of the downs, and the arguments, but I wonder how much I am to blame. I never started the argument, but I did something everytime that triggered her, or revealed information that no man should to a woman when she crossed my boundaries about my past and masterbating habits. Its so confusing because i really feel like she did have empathy…she was a great listener, she would apologize for her rare verbal abuse, she would drive anywhere for me, if I was sick (rare it was usually her) she would drop everything and come help. The guilt inducing stuff was never recognized by her and I was labeled too sensitive. The conflicts all stemmed from jealousy and insecurity on her part. I wonder if I could have been more loving, put more effort like she says. I have issues obsessing about her now and I am incredibly jealous about her moving on with other men. I seem to find myself as a pretty logical person and I believe in live and let live…but now mentally im so depressed. i am sure Im codependent on her. Any more words of wisdom? Or are you sticking to your first comment. Im serious, she was very generous, would come to all of my athletic events, etc. So I dont mean to paint her all negative, not at all. She was pretty amazing minus the drama.

    • savorydish said

      You’re welcome. I’ve been through the same bullshit you are going through. So when I see you writhing in pain, I cringe. I have only the advantage of perspective and distance. BPs are not evil. But they are deeply troubled human beings. They have a loving side that people like you and me hunger for. But that’s what makes them so dangerous.

      You can be the most logical and intelligent being on the planet, but a BP will find a way to appeal to that inner child who is starving for love and affection. That is the part of you that is holding on. So yes, you need to work on yourself. You need to find other ways of feeding and caring for that inner child. I’m sorry if that sounds cliche or hokey, but that is what is going on.

      BPs with histrionic traits are very good at convincing you they are amazing. But that is a front. If you look behind the facade you will see a crumbling mess of a person. The trick is to see her for who she really is. Take off your rose-colored glasses. Every time you think fondly of her, remind yourself of all the fucked up things she has done to you and your self-esteem.

      The worst kind of abuse is the kind that is doled out by someone you love and trust. That is, someone who caresses you with one hand and then stabs you in the back with the other. This is the kind of abuse they grew up with. That is why they are so screwed up. Don’t let her screw you up. These people have access to your most vulnerable parts. That is why you must shut her out. For your own well-being.

      • Nicholas said

        “Caressing you with one hand, while stabbing you in the back with the other”
        I think that is the true essence of being with a borderline. I’m at two months of NC (at least from my end) and I have to say, leaving her was one of the BEST things I’ve ever done for myself. In fact, despite being in excruciating pain at times, I’ve never once considered going back to her. My decision has been made easier by pretty much every stunt she’s pulled since we broke up.
        Thanks for this blog savory, it’s been so helpful to me these past hard weeks.

      • savorydish said

        you’re welcome, Nicholas.

  3. toughmat said

    I should have read my first message before replying again..sorry for repeating things. Like I said I wrote the first one a week ago and saved it.

  4. toughmat said

    Thanks again. Its hard to believe a woman who I hiked out of the Grand Canyon with, accepted me for my quirks, etc. was a big fake. There was such a strong connection, shared interests, she always offered to pay, and her look was close to perfect for a guy like me. I think you are absolutely right that it is my lack of self worth, need to please and be liked, and inner child that is in so much pain and confusion. She really was so much goodness that I dont know if i will ever see her for who she is even with the facts I have now. Supposedly when I heal and grow i will not want to be with a woman like her but I am so scared ill regret not working on the relationship and giving her time in therapy. I guess what I keep hearing -that I need to “work on myself” and that “I cant change her” -holds true. This truly is a nightmare for me…..I state that looking for no sympathy, only solution. I was probably the perfect candidate for a woman like this….here I am with 900 people telling me the same shit and all I can think about is going back.

  5. savorydish said

    “If we have split you black, it’s because we feel you have rejected us somehow, or are about to, or you might abandon us”

    – MickeyD speaks the truth.

    Towards the end of our relationship, my borderline ex became more and more neurotic/paranoid. She was making it harder for me to love her. She was making me jump through all kinds of hoops.

    All of this led to my decision not to move to LA with her. This is exactly when she split me black. I can vividly remember that day. It was like a light had switched off.

    She became noticeably cold and callous. It was then she started flirting with other men and doing things to make me jealous. She wanted to make me regret my decision. But she was too childish to understand that she was actually making me glad that I didn’t move in with her.

    It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Deep down my ex fears everyone will abandon her, which is why she pushes people away. But she always makes sure she abandons you before you abandon her.

  6. toughmat said

    Interesting. MICKEY D thanks so much for your insight as well. Despite the restraining order threats im not sure if I am split black in the same manner you are speaking SD. Or maybe I am being naive. She went from saying she wants me to get better and cares about me since I have stalked her but recently said she now hates me too. I can’t see her ever flirting with men while we were together. She would not even look at guys even when I pointed out certain guys to her. She was very much about creating security since she didn’t want to feel insecure. If it was all a lie she was really good.

    • savorydish said

      I know you don’t want to hear this, but it was a lie. She is that good. Faking love is a survival skill for an untreated BP.

      Don’t feel bad, we all fell for it. It’s a tempting treat for those with co-dependent tendencies. Deal with those tendencies and focus on healing yourself. You will be amazed at what a difference it makes.

      Make yourself strong again and she will no longer have power over you. Focus on her pathology, not all the good times you had. Because that is who she really is.

  7. MickeyD said

    “But this is not true love. This is a co-dependent addiction masquerading as love. Instead of one person hurting themselves. You now have two people hurting each other”.

    SD this is one of those sayings that will stay with me forever….thank you for your wise words.

    MickeyD

    • savorydish said

      Thanks, MD. Unfortunately, I have had to make a lot of mistakes and bad choices to learn my lessons. But maybe it was all for a reason.

      It has really meant a lot to get support from someone who has suffered from BPD. Thank you for confirming what so many have denied.

      I know it must be hard to read the anger here, but your sympathy has really helped to soften the hate and bridge the divide.

      Ideally, I would love to have my own borderline exes acknowledge the pain they have caused me, but that makes me more appreciative when I see that you have the strength and courage to step up and take ownership of your past.

      Peace,
      SD

      • MickeyD said

        Thank you SD….your kindness to me here has meant a lot. I feel I’m taking a risk, but at the same time trying to demystify the whole BPD thing…although you seem to pretty much have it all figured out, your insight and knowledge surrounding PD’s is off the charts. You’re brilliant!

        I do hope one day you get an apology from one of your ex BP’s, although I wouldn’t hold my breath. It’s never crossed my mind to actually apologize to any man I might have hurt (because, as you know, it was always YOUR fault we did and said the things we did…)… but I digress. Trust me when I tell you, you ONLY see it when you’ve studied it and healed from it. Even then, you STILL can’t quite wrap your head around it.

        On another note, SD….. somehow I feel my life has come full circle…seeing my name in bold on your front page, under the title ‘when the woman you’ve loved is fucked up beyond belief”…it’s, it’s….I dunno, liberating???

        Thanks again,

        Mickey

      • savorydish said

        Thank you for your kind words. I’m not brilliant. I was confused by a lover who said she loved me and then turned 180 on me. I had to find a reason for this insanity. So I did some research and one thing led to another. It helps to have an explanation to that which makes no sense.

        I’ve had one GF call me years later to apologize, but I won’t hold my breath for the other ones. Your presence has gone a long way to soothe the anger. Thank you for being so honest. You really are a shining example for BPs out there.

  8. toughmat said

    Im grateful to both of you SD and MD for helping me. If you both confirm my long standing belief despite her not having all of the characteristics ill take your word for it that is is bad news. I must still be in the thick of the fog, questioning my own perceptions and intentions.

    • savorydish said

      We have all been in there in the fog. The world of PDs is twisted and confusing. You are filled with self-doubt and fear that you might not find another love like the one you knew. But that love was a mirage. And no amount of rationalization will turn sand back to water. Accept that your thoughts are cloudy for now. Eventually the fog will lift but you must focus on taking care of yourself to get there. Someday you will look back and wonder what you were so upset about. Trust me. I’ve been there and back again.

      • savorydish said

        Before I met my ex I was a happy bachelor. I never wanted a relationship. I never wanted to be a caretaker. I wanted to be carefree. But she made me feel like that’s what I needed to be happy. But it wasn’t. It became a burden.

        But somehow she had created this unbreakable bond. A chemical dependency. Literally, I was addicted to the bio-chemicals that come with a BPD relationship. I stomached the lows because I was looking for that initial high. This is no exaggeration. This is documented fact. That is why it is so hard to break free.

        When my ex abandoned our relationship, it felt like life had been sucked out of me. But that was the spell she put on me. That is the spell they put on you so you will never leave them. Women who fear abandonment are very good at making you feel like you can’t live without them. It’s a survival skill they have honed over an entire lifetime.

        I am once again a happy bachelor and carefree. But it’s up to me to avoid that pitfall again. I am living proof there is life after a BPD relationship. You will emerge stronger and wiser. But first you have to believe you can get there.

  9. toughmat said

    Here I am again. Still unable to trust your opinions and some of my own that my ex has severe problems. I cringe and feel rage to say the least at the thought of her with another guy. I think the white knight aspect is related to extra jealousy or something. Mickey D, it was not always that a woman was a threat. Only a certain few she got stuck on based on something I said. And her verbal abuse only ever came in the form of text messages. Text was way too much a part of the relationship. It was built in by her that we text in the morning and at night no matter what. If I didn’t text goodnight I love you when I was not with her it was bad news bears so I always did outside of a few fights. I wonder if that was a control tactic? I would kind of miss that in the next relationship I think. I do believe she did k great job of upholding her end of her desires. Not once did she flirt in front of me and if hit on she would always introduce me as her bf immediately in a cool way. I think it was things that triggered her mostly that caused problems. Perceived threats. It was not easy, but it was not like I was handcuffed or anything. I think a relationship with a girl who was not clingy would feel foreign to me and I have a lot to process before even considering dating again.

    • savorydish said

      “I think a relationship with a girl who was not clingy would feel foreign to me and I have a lot to process before even considering dating again.”

      Time to think what was missing in your childhood, that you are now looking for as an adult.

      • savorydish said

        Matt,
        You are going through the cycles of withdrawal. You are coming off an addictive high, so “normal” life will feel foreign to you. Watch “Celebrity Rehab with Dr Drew”. You are going through the same thing. You need support (friends and family).

        Mornings are the worst. You feel empty. You think about all the men she is with. You feel rage and then sadness. Acknowledge what you’re feeling. This is a normal process. Write it down. It will help you let it go.

        I’ve written so much, it means nothing to me. I’ve become desensitized. I feel nothing for her. It took a year of reading and writing, but eventually I’m getting there. Sure I have residual anger in there somewhere, but it’s not as intense as it was before.

    • MickeyD said

      “If I didn’t text goodnight I love you when I was not with her it was bad news bears so I always did outside of a few fights. I wonder if that was a control tactic?”

      Mat, it’s not control at all. If you had a pattern of texting good night every night, and you’ve MISSED the all important text???…you MUST be screwing another woman! Texts/emails are very important to the BP….even electronically, for us, out of site…out of mind. Abadonment concerns arise, survival mode kicks in. Expect some type of retalliation for that down the road…like NEVER getting a text from us again. Sad, I know. But to us, it’s a form of electronic abandonment.

      MickeyD

      • savorydish said

        Yep, any time I didn’t answer her numerous texts or emails, she assumed I was with another women. She used it as an excuse to cheat on me.

  10. toughmat said

    Ya mornings do suck. she was my first girlfriend so I wouldnt know what to expect in a “normal healthy ” relationship as far as trust issues, text and calling frequency. She pretty much led the way and had her ideas about what a healthy relationship was. i think the goodnight texts were cool…but sometimes if I was with my buddies and I didnt want her to think I was out late I would say Im going to sleep earlire than I actually did. I hated to white lie but at times it was just easier than dealing with the questions. “Oh you were out drinking?” I dont think that is an unfair question she would ask but i didnt react well because I felt like I knew what she was implying…that I was being a bad bf. I would remark back with some bite and then I would get the “if you cant tell me where you are then this wont work. I am not the one going out drinking (which is true)”. I am still confused on that one.

    Also, to be fair, the woman she wanted me to cut out was someone who left a catty remark on facebook for my ex to see. This sparked my ex’s interest and she asked about this girl. I actually lived with the girl for a year about 7 years ago and admitted that I had slept with her 1x on a stupid drunk night. That never sat well with my ex and I cant say I blame her. So that is how her demand that I halt communication came even though I tried to assure her she was just a friend. Does that change anything? Yes, perhaps Im still making excuses, but I want to tell the whole story and above I realized I left out that important aspect that triggered her.

    I appreciate the responses so much. I am aware I am sounding redundant sometimes but Im a mess and this site is my only comfort in the world right now. My dad and brother think Im nuts, and my friends are tired of hearing it. So another big thanks.

    • savorydish said

      You’re very welcome. We are here to help each other. An untreated BP can be cruel and harsh, so I created a place where we can find solace.
      I’ve created a safe-haven where people can share their stories and not feel like they are the crazy ones. You are confused and heartbroken but not crazy.

      Yes, we are all being redundant. But that is part of the process of understanding. We are repeating patterns of behavior. The only way we will get better is to replace those patterns with healthier ones. An athlete must condition his muscles. A healthy person must condition his mind. Repetition is not the problem. But the kinds of behavior you are repeating will decide your future.

      Other people who have not been with a BP, will not understand. Parents, friends, even your ex’s therapist have little or no knowledge of borderline lovers. The normal rules of relationships do no apply. Up is down. Down is up. Welcome to Wonderland. Together we can sort through the mess, until we find clarity.

      • savorydish said

        The first one is always the roughest. Lots of lying in bed feeling sorry for yourself. Lots of depression and “how will I go on?” thinking. Personally, I avoid serious relationships for this reason. I am either “having fun” or neck deep into a dysfunctional relationship. Nothing in between. So yeah, break ups are always tough.

        The trick is to lay off yourself. Don’t beat yourself up for what you could have done. When you are dealing with a woman with serious trust issues, it’s never enough. You can never win no matter what you do.

        Being with a woman who doesn’t trust you will make you want to stay out drinking, maybe even consider other women. This is the push-pull game they are playing with you. She is transferring her shame onto you.

        Understand that you were merely reacting to these mind games in a normal way. She created uncertainty and that pushed you away, which made her put up her defenses. This is the vicious cycle she will bring into every relationship. If she is a victim of rape and childhood abuse, she has bigger problems that you drinking with the boys.

    • MickeyD said

      Mat, I can see how you having conversations with a woman you had sex with one time (even on a drunk night) would affect her. I don’t think this is just a BP issue, but would be an issue with ANY woman (sane or otherwise). This is not just a ‘friend’ at this point, it’s an ex-lover, no matter how you try to dress it up. The BPD will definitely take this scenario to the extreme…..you combine relations with ex-lovers, and conveniently forgetting to text good nights….it just screams ‘break up with him before he breaks up with me’. Not trying to step on toes, just calling it like I see it.

      Mickey

    • Nicholas said

      Jeez toughmat, your story sounds SO much like mine. It’s actually eerie.
      You NEED to get completely away from her. Forever. And ever. Never look back. Ever.
      I’m going to show you an email my ex sent me about two weeks ago:

      Hi Nick,

      I have yet to hear a response from you from my original email I sent yesterday. I feel disappointed that you are treating me with such a lack of respect when what I thought was you actually cared about me.

      Please refrain from talking openly about me and my family to everyone you see. I know you love to talk freely with anyone, but as I’m sure you are smart enough to know – there is more to it than just your version. Even when you think you are being fair and diplomatic, I have witnessed myself that in fact you are still putting a spin on things to maintain your side of things.

      Please stop talking about me and my family. Please do not talk to Brian if he approaches you if you have any ounce of respect for me. If not, then please, for Frankie and Eden.

      Can you please at least indicate wether you received this email?

      Thank you,

      Tasha

      Tasha

      Nick is talking to people and more than one person has approached me to offer there condolences on how I’ve been treated by you and your family. I do intend to speak with him when I see him.
      Also Tasha I always speak openly with my friends about what is going on in my life with no intent on hurting you in any way.

      On respect. Can you respect our children’s wishes to spend more time with me and start making changes that benefit our whole family? Also I would like to mention I encourage the children to phone you and say goodnight when they are with me. Could you also encourage the children to phone me rather than try to rush them off the phone when they do?

      My advice on POF is sincere. I have been off and on the site many times. An easy topic of conversation on a first date is POF. I’ve heard many times about the array of messages women receive. I’ve shared my tactic of hiding my profile and only sending messages to people I am interested in many times. The advice is always appreciated. Though I suppose if everyone did this nobody could see anybody.

      Hope this clears things up for you.
      Brian

      Nick,

      Can you explain to me what Brian might mean by “at least Nick is being honest these days”?

      Have you spoken with him? Or are you just speaking openly with everyone in a manner that is going to hurt me in ways such as this?

      Please at least have the respect to provide me with a response to this one?

      Tasha

      > Tasha
      > Your POF profile is showing, “honesty” that’s pretty funny. At least Nick is being honest these days.
      > Here’s a tip. To avoid unwanted messages from shirtless losers hide your profile and only send messages to people you’re actually interested in. That way only people you message can see you. The link is easy to find in the Help section.
      > Brian

      Toughmat, you can probably see how twisted this is, but in case you can’t I’ll tell you how twisted she is. First, the reference to me “talking” to people about her and her family is her, and her mother (a classic narcissist). She doesn’t want folks in our small community knowing how heinously she treated me (cheated on me with an old friend) because she treated Brian (the writer of the emails, and her ex whose children she stole and then accused him of sexual abuse) the same way. The trouble is that when we broke up, she posted all over FB about how heartbroken she was (always the victim needing attention and sympathy) which in turn caused people to approach me and ask me why I broke up with her. Well, gues what? I spent six years making excuses for her shitty behavior, and covering for her to my own detriment, and I’m not doing it anymore. So, when folks ask I tell them the truth. She HATES the truth. Just hates it. She wants everyone to believe her lies and manipulations, it fits better with her version of herself. So, she gets a catty email from her ex mocking her for calling herself “honest” on POF. She then quotes him in her email to me AND includes his email, thereby passively aggressively letting me know she’s dating less than two months after we broke up. Then he sends her an email the following day that is patently a huge suck up. The poor idiot is STILL under her spell, almost seven years later (he’s a narcissist).
      Guess what I did? Ignored the whole thing. She even called me last week and left the sweetest sounding message. Just wanted to ask me something she said. I ignored that too. You know what? She’s done enough damage to me and my life. She doesn’t get to do anymore. End of story. I put up with her unbelievable bullshit for six years, and that was more than enough. She’s having a hard time knowing that I now KNOW who she really is, and desperately wants to convince me otherwise. The only chance she has of doing that is if I give it to her, and I’m not going to.
      Toughmat, you are stronger than you know. You need to get as far away from her as you can, as quick as you can. Do all the processing you need to with friends and family, on here and other boards, but break contact ASAP. That is what’s going to save you. And it’s the ONLY thing that will.
      I now know that Tasha is a toxic person. She wrecks the life of every man she comes into contact with, and she’s not going to stop. I honestly pity the next man she becomes involved with. The black hole inside her is still there. It always will be as long as she looks outward for a fix, instead of inward. And the same is true of your ex, trust me.

  11. toughmat said

    Makes a lot of sense. To her credit, she knew she needed to work on her trust issues and some things got better. She would suggest I hang out with my friends sometimes in a nice way. It all depended on her. When she did I was like ‘are you sure?’ like she was baiting me. I think she is a great person who does feel love and tries to love to the best of her abilities but her insecurity is just too strong. Her inability to take responsibility is too strong. To take criticism means defending herself then flipping it immediately even to an off topic issue. I actually never criticized her except for giving me a hard time for things. When I did it was circular arguing for the most part. Once she got mad because I jokingly flirted with my best friends girlfriend and I calmed her down very well and she took it great. I think I was on my game in that case. Like a zen master. Too bad I could not maintain that level of calm every moment.

    • savorydish said

      Ah but this is how they lure you in, they give you the impression that you are their “zen master”. When they are around you everything is fine. You make them feel better. You were her knight in shining armor and she was your damsel in distress. She gave you the illusion of calm but deep down inside she was fighting back her insecurity.

      That is why these relationships always end abruptly. Eventually, the BP can not contain the madness. And it comes out all at once.

      That is why you are confused. The woman you knew before the blow-up was an illusion. She is running away because now you know her secret. She is sure you will never love her once you know the truth.

      In a way, she is right. If you saw the real her, you probably would run. I too fell in love with a woman who didn’t exist. When I saw the real her, I was shocked. The difference between the women I thought I knew and the woman who stood before me was mind-blowing.

      I tried so hard to reach out to the woman I fell in love with, but that woman never existed. My ex didn’t run away from me. She ran away from shame. She couldn’t keep the act up any longer. My friend, you fell in love with the idea of falling in love. What you are looking for… it never existed. Does that make sense?

      Read this post- https://savorydish.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/love-addiction-whats-the-big-deal/

  12. toughmat said

    Im still struggling with the illusion versus real her concept. I think in my ex’s case she was real. So real that nothing was contained or controlled at times. Again, who knows. All I have is my stories and memories. God do I miss her though. That’s the confusing part. If it is such a good decision to move on why does it feel so wrong?

  13. toughmat said

    Mickey D I didn’t see your reply sorry. Yes, I was not the best at calming insecurity. I should have realized what you said sooner and cut out the other woman. I eventually did but I was so reluctant because I felt controlled. Looking back I see that my ex was right. This makes me more confused. I feel even worse now that I could have done more. Deep down I think things could have been manageable over time. I could be fantasy landing it again. Mickey D based on everything what do you think? My co dependent lack of self is always searching for answers outside of myself. That drove my ex nuts. Maybe because she would be revealed?

    • MickeyD said

      Mat, it’s only natural to try and get your footing back in a relationship, especially when you’re feeling like you’re being controlled….this is human nature. We feel hurt so we hurt back…hence the mentioning another woman when you knew it pissed her off. If you want my honest opinion on what’s going on in your situation…..I say you’re letting this woman drive you absolutely crazy. You are sooooo much more than all of this Mat, go find someone healthy, start over, realize what may have gone wrong in ‘this’ relationship, learn from it and carry on. Life is short…… I know it’s hard but we ALL must take care of ourselves before we can take care and nurture a relationship. You’re a good person…find someone who will appreciate YOU. Peace.

      MickeyD

      • savorydish said

        Mat,

        Listen to Mickey D. Find someone who will appreciate you. You are trying to get water out of a dry well. I read your Ex’s website and she has some serious pain from her childhood. She even said she secretly harbors hate for all men because of what happened to her. Do you see that this alone makes it impossible for your relationship to work. She can’t trust men. Not even you. It has nothing to do with your trustworthiness. It has everything to do with her past. She needs to heal before she can nurture a relationship. The same goes for you. Neither of you are any good for each other in your current conditions.

  14. toughmat said

    That’s the thing I felt like she did appreciate me. I would say we were best friends but if the friendship was so real there would be more trust and less worry about upsetting her. I would say the hardest part is the thought and feeling of her spending her life without me and with someone else. I can imagine myself without her more easily but it feels terrible slowing she is going on without me and it was pretty much my choice. You know I would look forward to seeing her everyday. One day apart and I would miss her. This is crazy. Its worse than her being dead in some sense. Sorry I am taking SD advice to use this forum to heal.

  15. toughmat said

    Also Mickey, I mentioned her because my ex asked who she was after this girl posted a caty remark on a facebook picture. I regret not siding with my ex on this one. I feel like telling her my new perspective on that but its probably not smart to initiate contact of any kind esp with restraining order threats. Are you sure im a good guy? How? I proved in one incident I didn’t think considerately so maybe there are plenty more. Just pointing out my confusion still remains.

  16. toughmat said

    Thanks for doing that sD. I just didn’t want you to think I was inventing someone and I also knew you would have a good filter.

    • savorydish said

      You’re welcome. I know what it feels like to think that you are imagining all of this. But I can at least confirm your suspicions that all is not well with your ex. She seems pretty honest about it all. Unlike my ex who hides behind a public persona. The fact that she is in therapy is also a good sign. Other than that, she reminds me a lot of my own ex. Tragic pasts seem to have the same tragic outcomes. It sucks that they can’t maintain a healthy relationship, but that is just the fallout of sexual abuse. We just have to accept that a woman like this can’t love us the way we deserve to be loved.

      I wish we could help them, but we can’t. Even therapists struggle to deal with BPs, what chance do we have? Not a chance in hell. We are only compromising our own well-being by struggling to accomplish the impossible. She can not help but hurt the ones who love her. But you can decide not to subject yourself to that kind of torture. You deserve better. We all do.

  17. toughmat said

    Also SD, what are some things I should specifically focus on healing? In other words what do you feel my issues are? I think I have my fear of loss, need to rescue, co dependence, anything else? Thanks mate.

    • savorydish said

      I’m in no position to tell you how to heal. I am healing myself. But it wouldn’t hurt to talk to someone about your past. That is where all our issues started. Pour your energy into things that get you excited. You have a lot of passion. Why waste it on someone who is afraid of it?

      Don’t rush into another relationship, but sometimes it helps to start dating other people. Just to recapture that feeling of being loved again or at least appreciated. I know you’re not ready now, but the best way to forget about a lost love is to find a new one. Expect that you will have lots of rough starts because you are now carrying baggage from your old relationship. But in the end, all will be well.

      Don’t let this experience sour you. Learn from it and always ask how you can improve yourself. When you are healthier, you will start to attract healthier people. That’s how it works. You and I will always attract wounded women. It is in our past and our DNA. But ideally we can find someone who is further down the healing path, like Mickey D.

      As the olds adage goes, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. We all have our insecurities. You can’t rid yourself of them. But you can learn to contain them. It takes practice. And a lot of stumbling in the process. Such is life.

      The first step is to expect more from life. Visualize healthier relationships. Hang around people who have healthy relationships, and figure out what they are doing. Observe how they treat each other. If it seems foreign, it’s because it is. Somewhere along the line, you picked up bad habits. Learning new ones means learning to adopt behavior that may seem foreign to you.

      • MickeyD said

        “But ideally we can find someone who is further down the healing path, like Mickey D.”

        Lol SD……although I’ve come a long way, BPD, as you know, is a lifetime diagnosis. One can never really ‘fix’ this disorder, only heal/sooth it. I still don’t consider myself relationship material (even though I’ve been married for awhile now). Always the runaway….one foot in, and the other halfway down the road….I started running away when I was 5 years old (literally). It takes 100% mental capacity to stay onboard and connected (to anything for that matter), it ain’t easy…….I wouldn’t wish me on anybody.

        MickeyD

      • savorydish said

        I guess it’s your refreshing honesty that makes you seem healthier.

  18. toughmat said

    Well said. I have been seeing a therapist for about 6 months actually mostly focused on my relationship. I talked a lot about the incidences that would occur and he said it is not a healthy relationship. We talk mostly about my mom stuff. I am still feeling upset we didnt try couples therapy together and individual simultaneously. I had the chance and I passed.

  19. toughmat said

    I was wondering what I can expect from her now behavior wise? Will I be hearing from her soon, later, never? What will she want? I know she told my dad in an email how much she loves me but the next day she told me in text she hates me. Then she said she wants me to get help and can’t talk to me if I keep crossing boundaries by speaking to her friends and doctors which I have done. I am also aware that I am no longer in any of her pictures on face book. She would always delete my friends when she suspected it was over in the past. I just want to be prepared for what to expect. Any predictions?

  20. toughmat said

    Just an update. She is going on a date tonight with a buff guy. I flipped out and cried for about an hour and hit things in rage. I really dont know if I can take this or make it through. I may have to just try to desperately get back together and probably get rejected.

    • savorydish said

      Mat,
      If I told you not to do it, you would probably ignore me. So all I can tell you is that she has split you back. Nothing you say will make her take you back. You represent intimacy. And that makes her fear you. You must always remember that. Whatever you do in desperation will only make the situation worse. I can only say that because I’ve been there.

      • toughmat said

        SD, I am starting to doubt everything I think. I am questioning myself, my friends, her, therapists. I don’t even know if she has borderline. She said she loves me but does not trust me and thinks im a liar because of the trash talking she read on facebook. She can say the worst things and that she will never be with me but in the past that has proven to be only words. She said today when I contacted her about a new doctor she will be seeing for her pain to say congrats that she wants me to get better. Then it turned to guilt inducing comments about other women I lust after and all the trash talk she read which means I am a liar and our relationship was a lie. Then how she doesn’t want to talk for awhile. Maybe in december she said but she didn’t talk to her other ex’s for at least two years. That I am a bad addiction and ruined her life by stringing her along with my ambiguity which is true. For trying to get her back only to be too scared to commit and it messing with her. She is over me she says.

      • savorydish said

        Matt
        This relationship is a mess. It would be best for both of you to cut each other off.

  21. dskennan said

    I attended a wedding a few weeks ago about a 1000 miles from home.

    So after 4 gin and tonics at the reception, a PhD psychologist who lives in the same city as me and who knew the bride in graduate school and who is a sex therapist asked me if I had a girlfriend back in home I said no so he asked me about “my story”.

    (Interestingly enough, that weekend was the 1 year anniversary of meeting my ex’s family and then the ensuing breakup from hell.)

    So I figured “Ok, here’s the story from the last year” and proceed to lay it out over the course of about 15 minutes. He said flatly “Even though I haven’t met her, I think what you’ve described is pretty clearly Borderline Personality Disorder”. He then explains that he does a lot of work with the various correctional services and he sees BPD and other disorders all the time in the justice system, to the point where he can spot the subtleties very quickly.

    He then asks a bunch more detailed questions about her behavior. (It’s clear he’s extremely well-versed in the subject matter) With a frown, he says “Yeah, I suspect she was abused in the past.” He indicated that what I described pointed toward a bad back story.

    He did praise me for what I did and how I went about doing it over the last 12 months (writing the letter to her mother, doing my own introspection, etc)… so that was good.

    Then he asks “So what does she do for a living?”

    I respond “She’s a grad student at the university.”

    “Oh, what faculty?”

    I tell him.

    The psychologist then pauses for a few seconds… “What’s. Her. Name?” The gears are clearly turning in his head now…

    I tell him.

    Then he says “Hmmm… I don’t think we should continue this discussion.”

    We all know why he can’t continue to talk – He clearly knows more than he is willing and able to let on.

    So we dropped it.

    About 45 minutes later, and two more G&Ts for him, he asks “Do you have any photos of her?” It’s easy to find a couple of her on the internet so I pull them up on my phone.

    I show him two photos… his immediate response: “Wow… stunning girl. But look at her eyes. Her eyes give it away…”

    His second statement… “Her area of study is good for her. It keeps her structured.”

    And that was it.

    For me, it was nothing revolutionary that he told me. I’ve been going through the final stages of detachment and this interaction just helped to serve to align my head, heart, and gut.

    • savorydish said

      I would love to tell him my story.

    • Mark said

      I am curious, what was it about her eyes that gave her away?

      I have been reading the comments by Matt and I also continue to be bounced back and forth by my concerns that perhaps I reacted badly to how my ex acted and that I could have been contributive to her cutting me out of her life. This whole thing is so insidious. Was my behavior towards her passive/aggressive silent treatments and on-going lack of response to communicatins attempts a sign of my own issues? I now know I was clearly co-dependant but should I have behaved differently and not finally gotten fed up and lashed out? Her last message to me was that I had serious issues that she did not want to be part of. I do admit that I would get angry and jealous in our past. I did have trust issues with her because she did love the attention of different men. I really never knew if there was anything going on with one guy she was close to that died after a freak accident. He was in a coma for several months after a severe head injury and she took me to a facility to see him. I was shocked at his appearance and cried a bit but she showed no real emotion. Also, his movements would cause him to slightly uncover himself and she would very familiarly cover him up during this visit. I often thought it a bit odd that she was so comfortable in doing that. Should I not have noticed that?
      I have many doubts about myself in this whole thing.

      • savorydish said

        Is it possible you contributed to her cutting you out? Yes. BPs often find people who have trust issues because subconsciously they know the relationship will implode. Then they push you away with mind games and infidelity. It is a self-fulfilled prophecy. They are convinced every man will abandon them, and then they make it happen to prove it. So yes, you did play a part. But unbeknownst to you, you were playing a part in her self-made tragedy. You were destined to fail. You were following your programming and she was following hers. This scenario has a pre-determined outcome.

      • Mark said

        Do BP women usually lack empathy? I eventually found out that my ex was pretty amazing in her lack of empathy for those who were in pain. Her boss’ wife was diagnosed with stage four cancer in June and passed in Sept. and she really thought he was just using it as an excuse to not come into the office and learn a new system. When I pointed that out, right before she first cut me out, she became enraged. She even told me that she was so angry with me that it would wake her up at night. But I noticed that she never mentioned anything about the reality that she showed no empathy. I guess she just ruled it out as not a problem for her. As I have stayed away from her and read the items on here, I am really noticing the oddities in our relationship that would sometimes give me those pangs of something being amiss. I have been buffeted back and forth by my feelings that I could have done better in my behavior towards her and then seeing the anecdotes here that explain the disorder that was really controlling how all of this would inevitably play out. She was intially obsessed with me and was “crazy in love” with me. But in spite of that she would flirt with other men in front of me and intentionally not tell me when she was going to meet a group that included a particular male friend of hers that she knew I had concerns about. When I found out about it once and confronted her about it she acted as though she could dump me without compunction. She would become enraged if I were ever late to meet her, no matter what the reason. She did tell me once that she had been sexually abused by a relative when she was a girl. She had a bad relationship with her mother and indicated that her mom was absentee for her and her siblings. Her brother has an on-going, serious drug problem. These are just some of the indicators that I now notice link her to this disorder. I am not to blame though. I do have low self-esteem and was very co-dependant. I was addicted to know that someone, who mostly seemed so together, thought I was wonderful. I did not want to lose that in my life. But now I am realizing that it was just a story. It was not real. She took it away without any concern for my heart.

      • savorydish said

        There is no easy answer to the question- “do borderlines feel empathy?” As an activist, my ex seemed to have lots of empathy for oppressed people and other victims of abuse. But her empathy seems to have vanished into thin air when it comes to people she has hurt. It’s easy to feel empathy when you are not the abuser.

      • Mark said

        In my remark below I meant to say I am not blameless in all of this. Just wanted to correct that.

  22. toughmat said

    SD, everyone is telling me that. That I need to move on and stop thinking we could live happily ever after with some counseling. That love is not enough. That I can’t fix her. That I need to work on myself. I have a huge void she filled. Its kind of like what’s the point now? I poured everything into her and it turned out as poorly as possible. And its not just her its me. Being a people pleaser makes me want to fix what I have done. The only way would be to go back and be perfect. I guess that is the illusion I have that I need to get over. That I would just be delaying the inevitable.

  23. env100 said

    Mickey x x your words so very true…. Thank you for sharing this x

  24. Driver said

    MickeyD…again, thank you for helping out here. I know that I appreciate all of the insight you have shared here regarding relationships between BPDs and Nons. Your many answers are starting to make sense to all of the unanswered questions that I had when my relationship went south.
    Thanks!

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