The World’s Most Amazing Parents

June 7, 2012

Did you know my borderline ex has amazing parents? Well, that’s according to a recent post that she dedicated to her amazing mother for Mother’s Day. That’s funny. I swear a week did not go by where my borderline ex did not complain about her mother being either physically or mentally abusive to her as a child. And then there’s her father. According to my ex, her mother caught her father making out with my ex’s lesbian fiance at a family party. This was no doubt retribution for her mother’s own acts of indiscretion. Do these sound like amazing parents to you?

So what the hell is going on here? Why the sudden 180? Why the two-faced storytelling?

I started hearing these family horror stories early on in the relationship. I remember being alarmed at the time. Who could blame me? What kind of family acts this way? A deeply dysfunctional one. At that time, I tried not to judge so I kept my distance. At the time, I didn’t know a thing about BPD. But I knew enough to know that dysfunctional families produce dysfunctional children. I knew what her parents did to each other, she would eventually do to me. Unfortunately, I was right. The rotten apple never falls far from the rotting tree.

Even so, I comforted her every time she shared a sob story. Looking back now, it was probably the worst thing I could have done because I was just encouraging the drama. Borderlines tell sob stories to reel people in and to prevent them from leaving. It’s why you have to take their stories with a grain of salt. My ex conveniently told sob stories every time she felt me pull away. What she didn’t realize was that it was her stories that were pushing me away.

It wasn’t that I didn’t care about her. I just didn’t need the drama. I didn’t want to be sucked into the vortex. Even before I learned about personality disorders, I knew it would spell disaster. I had dated enough fucked up women in my life to know how this would all end.

Every time she felt me pull away, it would trigger her fears of abandonment. And with that, she would always tell me another sob story. Each time, she would ratchet up the sob factor. Each story was more tragic than the last.

I ran myself ragged trying to contain the drama. I played the co-dependent fixer all too well. I even suggested she patch things up with her mother. Overnight, her mother became her new BFF when, just days ago, she was her tormentor. But then she calls me on New Year’s Eve to tell me about her father’s act of betrayal. To be honest, my first thought was “Jesus, what have I gotten myself into?”

To this day, I don’t know which stories to believe. Because when you are dealing with someone who will literally do or say anything to avoid abandonment, it makes it very hard to believe any of these stories. But something bad must have happened in her past. She wouldn’t be as fucked up as she is if her childhood was amazing. That much I know.

When she learned about her father from her mother/new BFF, she came back a different person. All of a sudden, she was paranoid. She accused me of flirting with her friends and hiding secret lovers from her. She started saying things like “all men are pigs” (black and white thinking). That’s when I knew our relationship was doomed. I knew sabotage was just around the corner.

The same month she had learned about her father’s assholish behavior was when she decided to get drunk and flirt with her male “friend” right in front of me and all her friends. Assholish behavior runs in her family. When they are tired of fucking each other over, they go out and find other people they can fuck over. Assholes, every one of them.

Of course, those with borderline tendencies will say, “nobody’s perfect.” True. We all have our faults. But if our imperfections are small cracks, then a borderline’s imperfections are giant chasms. You have to draw the line somewhere.  We’re not talking about imperfection. We’re talking about people who have abusive tendencies, people who tell sob stories to manipulate others. This is where we must draw the line.

Borderlines posing as angry activists will argue that this is discrimination. They will say that we are treating the abusive assholes with a heavy hand. And I say- let them say whatever they want to say. Because a disordered person will say anything to avoid abandonment and rejection. Disordered people should be treated like disordered people. We should never make the mistake of treating them as if they are healthy individuals.

Disordered people tell tall tales. They make things up. They exaggerate. They confuse and contradict their own words. They have a very loose grip on reality. They tell stories to gain attention or to lash out at someone.That is why people have such a hard time believing a word they say.

My ex worked so hard to convince me that her parents were terrible. And now she wants all her readers to believe otherwise. She is on a mission to prove that she is normal. She even married an unsuspecting young man to prove that she is capable of intimacy. But she is fooling her readers just like she is fooling herself and everyone around her. You can’t fool yourself into thinking you’re healthy. That’s called denial.

People like my ex and Mina Jade are far from healthy. They are fooling themselves into believing that they are right in the head. Delusional thinking is a major component of BPD. It’s why they have such a poor recovery record. Honesty is required for recovery.

So when my borderline ex claims that her parents are amazing, don’t be so quick to believe her. Troubled women are the product of a troubled upbringing. BPD also has genetic roots. Assholes give birth to a new generation of assholes. There’s a reason why her family has worked so hard to silence this blog. They don’t want you to know the truth. The tragic path of a borderline always leads back to the family.

That’s why my ex became a “journalist”, so she could blog the past away. She can blog about her amazing life and her amazing parents. No one will dare question her for fear of being labeled a “would-be rapist”. If you knew my ex like I know my ex, you would know that her family and her life are anything but amazing. Even she had to acknowledge there were parts of her life that weren’t so amazing.

In her Mother’s Day post, she hinted at “dark times”. But then she made the ridiculous suggestion that her parents overcame those dark times by taking more vacations and bike rides to the beach. Did you know that you can cure BPD trauma with bike rides to the beach? Did you know infidelity can be forgiven with a vacation? More inane suggestions by my all too helpful ex.

My ex is living a lie. She is perpetuating this lie, because she’s afraid her family will unravel (fear of abandonment). But what she doesn’t seem to realize is that her family has already unraveled. The emperor is naked but strutting around, thinking she is fully clothed. So rather than confront issues and address problems, she pretends they don’t exist. Compartmentalizing the past allows her to live in a fantasy world where chocolate rivers run through fields of cotton candy.

So let me end with some more advice to my delusional ex:

If you are too emotionally-retarded to treat people with the respect that they deserve, then you are not worthy of an adult relationship. Getting married and obsessing about weddings will not make you feel whole. Only a small child thinks they can overcome psychological trauma with pretty dresses and fancy events. GROW UP. There’s a reason why people hate your guts… there’s a reason why lovers and friends always turn into enemies- it’s because you’re an irresponsible asshole. Until the day that you take responsibility for your disorder, you will always be an asshole.

80 Responses to “The World’s Most Amazing Parents”

  1. Zee said

    Whatever a borderline tells you about her past – be it family, friends, work, relationships – you can be SURE that it is either WAY better or WAY worse than she’s describing. Untreated borderlines are incapable of seeing REALITY, and are therefore incapable of conveying reality.

    It is really is that simple.

    The above sounds like a typical case of splitting. One day her parents are monsters, the next, they’re awesome, and blah blah blah blah blah. That’s the way it was with my borderline ex. One really has to MEET folks face to face to get a good handle on what they’re really like. And they have to get the borderline OUT OF THE WAY in order to do that.

    After a while, it became pretty clear to me what my ex’s family was really ‘about.’ Her mother was an abusive narcissist, her dad was a good guy but enabled the mother and buried himself in his work to avoid the mess of his family (and became a zillionaire in the process). My ex was sexually abused by someone as a child (and probably lied to me about who the perpetrator was) and told her mother, but her mother ignored her or denied it and called her a trouble maker. Her sister is an obnoxious twit but in a ‘normal’ way, and can be brought down to size with a handy tongue-lashing. (Which she got from me and wound up respecting me for it.)

    And so on and so on and what’s for dinner, you know? Big YAWN at this point.

    😉

    • savorydish said

      I have no doubt that there’s some splitting involved here. I’d be more sympathetic to her parents if they had been more honest and apologetic. If they had acknowledged that their daughter was screwed up, I would have given them the benefit of the doubt. But instead they tried to make me out to be the bad guy. That’s when I knew they were projecting and shifting the blame onto me. That’s when I knew they were as fucked up as her.

      • Zee said

        Ouch. Sounds like that hurt. Sorry, man.

        My ex’s folks are screwed up in their own way. They know their daughter is crazy, but they do all the wrong things to try and make her better. Her dad throws money at the situation because he has no idea what else to do. Her mom could care less if she lived or died (I could feel that from her, although she acted differently. It was creepy). It’s a shame, really. I got along great with her dad. We became pals pretty fast. He’s an awesome (though misguided) dude; he’s just in way over his head. The mother is a friggin’ dragon, though. She warmed up to me, but that’s because she wanted someone to take over her babysitting job. In fact, I felt that from the whole family. I could have lived in a 1.5 million dollar apartment in NYC if I wanted to and had an awesome job whenever I wanted it if I married this woman, but I’m not a whore, and the price was too high nonetheless.

        Shame though. I did enjoy staying at their massive house in FLA 😉

      • savorydish said

        It did hurt. Because I had gone out of my way to help their daughter through panic attacks and deep depression. I forgave her for unforgivable acts. My family invited her to family get-togethers when she couldn’t be with her own family. And they paid me back by telling me to stay away from their daughter after she split me black. Ungrateful assholes, every one. I regret having introduced her to my family. But I’m glad I didn’t let the rest of her fucked-up family in. I would have been happy if they all stayed in Toronto to rot, but my ex just had to move to the US so she could spread her disease. God help her in-laws. They’re fucked and they don’t even know it.

  2. Zee said

    “assholes.”

    There’s that word. Remember it. F__K ’em. Let ’em suffer. It has nothing to do with you. Neither do the next group of people. Take care of #1 and let God take care of the rest. In fact, that’s what God said to me in prayers about this woman and her brood: ‘F__k ’em, kid. Take care of #1 and I’ll deal with them. Peace be with you. Now stop hooking up with psychos!!’

    😉

  3. Zee said

    Seriously, though . . . I really believe that when we start to care less on an emotional AND intellectual level what happens to ‘them,’ we get better. In my case (and I do mean my OWN case), I had come to the realization that what I thought was harmless speculation after the fact was me STILL CARING in some way about her. It took me a while to STOP caring, but when I did, I was free. That’s why I can talk about it here. The best thing I could do was get on with my life and do all the things I really wanted to do – things I NEVER could have done had I remained saddled with a psycopath.

    I really don’t care about her . . . because she DOESN’T DESERVE MY CARE. She is unworthy of it in all respects. If she knocked on my door right now with the worst horror story ever, I would be UNMOVED. I will NOT cast my pearls before swine, as the saying goes. My job is to find the people who are DESERVING of my care and offer it to them.

    I am really not under the belief that everyone deserves care or acceptance. Some people don’t. That includes people who KNOWINGLY damage the spiritual or emotional well-being of others in an attempt to assuage their own emotional turmoil. I really believe Scott Peck when he calls these people EVIL. They are evil.

    And because I am where I am today with this stuff, I was recently able to avoid a woman who I felt might be trouble. THIS TIME, I opened my ears and my eyes and did a little evidence gathering. And I didn’t like what I found. Hence . . . I kicked her to the curb where she belonged.

    Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. After a while, a guy gets sick of being the village idiot.

    Know what I mean?

    • savorydish said

      I know exactly what you mean. I just worry that devil might have killed that part of me that use to be a lot more compassionate. IOW I worry that I might become more like them.

  4. savorydish said

    The best was when her asshole father calls me to complain about my blog. At first, I removed the posts out of goodwill. One last attempt to patch things up. But when I realized my ex was just playing with me, the goodwill died and the blog was reborn.

    He was more concerned about their family reputation than her well-being. That’s what makes him an asshole. What he doesn’t seem to get is that his family’s reputation was shit long before this blog was started.

    Why do you think my borderline ex has moved to another country? Every time she embarrasses herself, she has to move to another city. This is her idea of a solution to mental illness. Just pick up and go.

    That way you never have to acknowledge the pain you’ve caused others. Pretty convenient. Right?

    • savorydish said

      What her father doesn’t know is that his daughter secretly hates his guts. But instead of confronting her father, she took her man-hate out on me. Even though it was her father who screwed her over. This is what you need to know about borderline women, especially the ones with daddy issues. They will take it out on you. They will use you as the surrogate punching bag. In their black and white minds, you are a man and their father was a man. Therefore, you are all the same (all men are pigs). You are a convenient scapegoat for all their angst.

      But a day will come when she will confront her true feelings and she will split him like she split me. He will be cut out of her life, like she cut me out. When that day comes, I will laugh for days.

      • savorydish said

        After she had split me black (conveniently split before she cheated on me), I desperately and foolishly tried to re-establish contact. Her asshole father had the audacity to call and suggest I was stalking her. Earlier that month, she had asked me to move in with her! Just weeks ago, my parents had invited her out to dinner. Did I mention what incredible assholes these people are? Their family is one big genetic cesspool.

        I hope to god the guy she suckered into marrying her is reading this. He should take a good look at this blog. Because, eventually, he will be treated the same way. What she did to me, she did to others. He’s just the next in line.

        He’s already served his purpose. Sooner or later, they will discard him like they discarded me. He will make the same mistakes I did. He will think that their love was special. And he will be wrong. Because there is no love with a woman like my ex. There is only the illusion.

        Sooner or later, he will realize his new bride is a cold-hearted manipulator. He will get the biggest rude awakening he’s ever had.

  5. Sammy said

    Amen to that buddy..All that you said is so true , It hits the nail on the head , with my BPD / NPD ex as well , For the life of me last year talking about a great family …I couldn’t figure out why her aunt ….Would send here pictures of a rainbow penis …on line and my ex showed it to me…and It hit me what family member who knows that your in a relationship would do something like this…..This is just one example of some of the strangeness in that relationship with her. WOW

    • savorydish said

      Lack of boundaries is a BPD trait. They learned those traits from someone. When you discover someone is a borderline, you will unearth a whole family filled with bizarre stories. They may look normal on the outside. But once you’re on the inside, you see another side that no one else sees.

      • savorydish said

        What is mildy amusing is the borderline (in a sad attempt to deflect blame) will accuse you of having a lack of boundaries, when you look up phone numbers in their address book of guys they’ve been fucking on the side. Never thinking that fucking guys on the side is a violation of boundaries. Create a blog to recount the horror stories of BPD, and they will also accuse you of lacking boundaries. But sending photos of rainbow penises to your niece… totally acceptable. Welcome to the fucked up world of the borderline family.

  6. Henley said

    YES! I was told I had no boundries when I’d try to defend myself from a verbal attack! Yet—

    He texts naked pictures to women he barely knows
    He yells Fxx you, stomps around red faced
    His father accepts his behavior and says nothing
    His mother tells disgusting sex jokes at dinner (even the first time I met her)
    His ex wife emails him porn and thinks I’m out of line to object and “have no sense of humor”
    His sister talks about other women’s body parts in a resturant and points them out to him to ooggle while we are on a double date
    His brother does something so the all descide nopt to talk to him for 8 months and he lives down the street
    His sister thinks it funny to find and play hide and seek with her 16 year old sons’ condoms
    His parents invite his ex-wife on vacations and have her stay with him thinking I shouldn’t mind
    He thinks it is funny to burst into the bathroom and take pictures while I’m on the toilet

    The list goes on and on…

    And he says I have no boundaries. I mainly stood around being nervous, and watching the weirdness play out.

  7. Henley said

    What looked like a close knit family was in fact alot of pathos enabling each other by covering for each other.

    • savorydish said

      Ironically, the cover up brings them closer together. Which leads me to wonder what it is my ex’s family is trying to cover up. My ex confessed that she believes a relative molested her at a young age. The question is which one.

      This is where the details are fuzzy. Then she tells me of a father who clearly has zero boundaries when it comes to sexual relations. Then yours truly begins posting their family secrets.

      Suddenly, the father who could give a rat’s ass about his daughter’s well-being shows up out of nowhere to stomp out the fire, accusing me of all sorts of predatory behavior. Projection? Seems like it. Suspicious? Very.

      The scary part is that the father was a counselor for troubled kids. Why does my Spidey sense tingle? Why do I fear for what may have happen to those kids? Why do I sense someone who abused his position of power? Then I wonder what his relationship was with his troubled daughter. Why is she so troubled? Why does she hate men so much?

      Then I start reading about incest in BPD families. Am I wrong to be thinking the unthinkable?

      • savorydish said

        Has anyone seen the Roman Polanski movie Chinatown? Why do I feel like Jack Nicholson’s character? Why do I feel like I have unearthed a dirty secret that can’t be put back? I know it sounds like I’ve made this shit up. I can’t even believe it myself. But the details are too real.

      • savorydish said

        Before you dismiss this as rubbish. Ask yourself this- why did my ex suddenly, and for no good reason, eject me from her life? Is it a coincidence that it happened right at the moment I started putting two and two together. Right at the moment she realized I had discovered it was all a big cover up. Is it a coincidence that dear old dad shows up to “save the day” when I started posting the truth for all the world to see?

      • Zee said

        “My ex confessed that she believes a relative molested her at a young age.”

        BELIEVES? She knows EXACTLY what happened and who did it. She just hasn’t done the trauma recovery work necessary to face the truth and heal. She’s developed maladaptive behavioral techniques to treat her emotional disfunction.

        My ex also said that she was molested by someone as a child. But at this point, I don’t believe that it was the ‘someone’ she claimed. I think it happened way closer to home, in a manner of speaking.

        You can NEVER take an untreated BPD’s statements at face value. They’re always embellishing or leaving something out. Remember, they create ALTERNATE REALITIES in order to cope.

      • savorydish said

        Yep. The more traumatic the event, the more fuzzy the details. I have just scratched the surface of what’s going on.

      • savorydish said

        Thank you Zee, for confirming what I already knew. If it weren’t for your knowledgeable insight, I would think that I’m the one stricken with paranoia and delusions. But as you pointed out- these are cold hard facts. You can’t make this stuff up. These people are fucked up for a reason and the explanations are always closer to home than anyone wants to admit. Why do you think angry people are always trying to shut this blog down? For the same reason my beloved ex ejected me from her life- I knew too much.

  8. savorydish said

    My Ex thinks I am the devil for broadcasting the TRUTH. She is too cowardly to face me so she has sent angry proxy after angry proxy to blow my house down. The house of truth still stands. And she is still very sick in the head. She has only added more fuel to the fire. IOW nothing has changed.

    She is not looking far enough into her past. I am not the demon she is looking for. I am just the convenient scapegoat. The unfortunate soul who got sucked in. Her demons reside much closer to home. But she is too cowardly to confront those demons.

    It is easier to blame me for a lifetime of misery.

    • savorydish said

      Very telling that she would rather cut me out of her life for exposing the truth, then a relative who has sexually abused her. What does that say about these women? They are more concerned about being revealed than the damage caused by a lifetime of abuse. This is how fucked up these women are. Read about Patty Hearst and the Stockholm syndrome, and you will understand why victims bond with their abusers.

      • savorydish said

        So when an ungrateful borderline tells you to “move the fuck on”, they are really telling you “you know too much about me”. The fear they carry into every relationship is the fear that they will be revealed and then rejected. That is why they hold their abusive family so close. Because even though they were abusive, they stuck around. To someone who is really fucked up, that is a source of comfort. That is enough to forget about a lifetime of abuse.

      • savorydish said

        When you take an honest look at the screwed up lives of these women, it is not hard to see why their relationships are doomed. It’s not hard if you’re healthy. If you’re as screwed up as them, you will fail to see the connection between lifelong abuse and the fear of intimacy. You will deny that there’s a connection. These women would rather blame their ex-partners for all that went wrong than accept blame or acknowledge their past. They would rather blame someone they knew for a few months than someone who screwed up their whole life. But that’s why they’re screwed up.

      • Sammy said

        Hey guys you all are so right here , My BPD ex is just like this , She would run back and forth back to her home town every three to four weeks …just to as she used to say spend time with her young nieces and nephews …But she didn’t want kids nor to be married …wonder why she need to spend so much time with others kids though….Hummm! , She bought a house there less than a year ago …Now she has applied and recieved a liquor license back here now ….Now mind you she Self medicates with alcohol and sex ….I see a big disaster brewing guys…..I think she used her ver jay jay on some poor arab guy to cut this deal…..I found all this out threw the grape vine…But word is she doesn’t ever want to see me again ..I was only very nice to her what could I have done to be split black like this……Well guess I know way too much. , I think what made me angry was all the projecting of her illness on to me , and then the proxies attacking me and saying I was stalking a person who would get on the phone and ask if I was coming over to her place. I don’t get it ???? , maybe you guys do!!! …I think what messed me up in this whole thing is I made excuses for a sick person each and every day even when my on brain and six sense was telling me to flea…LOL! What a damn fool I was …So you know now anything I might say …only makes the people around her say I am a stalker …and why won’t I just go away…., that she has been moved on and that she don’t talk about me like do her…..Hummm!

      • savorydish said

        The borderline waif receives tons of emotional benefits from playing the victim. It does not matter how much intimacy you two shared. Once you are split black, you become the enemy. You become a symbol of all the demons from their past. Intimacy triggers these dark memories.

        Your only mistake was that you got too close for comfort. You might be the most honest peace-loving person in the world, but their past clouds all of that. It deletes all the special memories you had together. These people are screwed up more than you and I will ever know, more than they will ever admit.

      • savorydish said

        Co-dependents often make the mistake of thinking that they can fix the borderline waif. They think that if they can just get them to see reason, everything will go back to the way it was. It will never go back to the way it was. Trying to reach out to them or confront them will only trip their “predator alarm”.

        These people WERE victimized at one time. That much we know. That’s why they lack the emotional sophistication to discern between friend and foe.

        Remember these people have the emotional intelligence of a 3yr old. Trying to reason with a bp waif is like trying to explain something to a 3 yr old. It’s a waste of time and it can only escalate the situation. This person needs serious help and most people are not qualified to deal with this heavy-duty level of dysfunction.

      • savorydish said

        You may think that you’re doing the denialist a favor by setting her straight. But you are causing her excruciating pain. The truth equals pain.That’s why she is running from you. That’s why she is recruiting proxies to fight you off. That’s why she is accusing you of being a crazy stalker.

        On the other side, enablers think they are doing the denialist a favor by protecting her from the Truth. Enablers only see the shiny exterior created by the denialist. They don’t see the rotting soul underneath. They don’t want to see it. They don’t want to hear stories of parent’s abusing their child’s trust. So they look away.

        Meanwhile, the denialist compartmentalizes the past and pushes down the truth. Untreated, the soul continues to rot. The denialist keeps shining the shiny exterior so no one will notice, but she has built a shiny skyscraper on swamp land.

        Everyone who surrounds her, everyone she calls “friend” and “soulmate”, marvels at the shiny skyscraper, not noticing how it teeters back and forth.

        Till one day… One day, it comes crumbling down. Then the friends, the enablers, and the clueless proxies are left scratching their empty heads. What happened? She seemed so happy.

        (Spoiler Alert) If you’ve ever watched Girl Interrupted, pay close attention to the late Brittany Murphy’s character. See how she pretends to be on the road to recovery. See how it all ends tragically. This is what happens when people fail to recognize the signs of a child who has been sexually-abused.

      • Sammy said

        One other question guys ..is it true that once they are fucked up like this , that They will screw those same abusers …I mean in the bed ., or screw their siblings ..She one told me a story about a time when she fooled around with a rugby guy and her little brother who is 4 years younger or something saw her lace panties …she went on to say he couldn’t handle seeing that , See I have long believed that it was her dad or uncles who fucked her when she was 6 or 7 …cause she told me she used to drank beer when she was 7 or 8 with her dad and his friend….What is your take here guys…?

      • savorydish said

        You will never know the truth. But clearly you see a pattern of inappropriate behavior and a serious lack of boundaries. Lord knows what happened in that household. These are things that do not happen in normal/healthy families. You can see the results of such dysfunctional behavior. Look into the story of Mackenzie Phillips and John Phillips for more insight.

  9. OnceBitten said

    One thing I noticed with my BPD ‘friend’ was that she parroted phrases that her (abusive?) father said to her all her life that were devaluing like “you don’t know what your doing” said towards me even doing simple tasks like washing up! It was as if she was passing on his medicine to me so she was her father and I was her. Odd at the time and odd now.

    Her whole life situation seemed one where after his death she got rid of her own possessions and adopted his possessions and ways but then acted out like a naughty little girl waiting for a smack (from herself?!).

    • dskennan said

      In retrospect, replaying the audio track in my head, my ex-gf was subjected to a death by a thousand cuts. Clearly, her humorous spin was a coping mechanism. During tax season, her dad was ‘trying to find a way to claim her as a retarded dependent.’ Her sister tweeted a quote from her brother: ‘Mom, dad you done good. One kid’s gonna be a geologist, the other an engineer, and the third a picture drawer’ The third – my ex – is going to be an architect. Picture drawer. Wow. Systematic devaluation, passed down to the next generation.

      My friend who ‘was that girl 10 years ago’ tells me that her father, in the course of a few sentences on the phone, can set her back 3 to 6 months in her ‘recovery’. She’s literally forced to go underground for a while to regroup when that happens.

      In both cases, the fathers are extremely well-educated, wealthy, and very visible members of their respective communities. It just goes to show that jackasses come in all shapes and sizes.

      It’s tragic that by the time the offspring are able to get out of the house and to start living as adults that they are already inducted members of the Manchurian Candidate club.

  10. Zee said

    Facing the truth for a BPD is a very real kind of ‘death.’ It’s a death of the ‘false self.’

    Basically, in order to deal with whatever trauma happens to them in childhood, a false self takes over. This false self encompasses all of the BPD’s erroneous beliefs and maladaptive behaviors. The false self is a SURVIVAL STRATEGY. The survival strategy is enacted somewhere around early adolescence and ‘perfected’ throughout adulthood in order to stave off the fear of abandonment.
    (This is not just a run-of-the-mill fear; it’s a terrifying, gut-wrenching, physical dread.)

    The problem is this: although the BPD is terrified of abandonment, everything she does CAUSES people to abandon her. I’ve said it here before, and I’ll say it again; the BPD’s life is a tragic irony. In fact, BPD’s often feel abandoned when it is THEY who are doing the abandoning!!

    Talk about screwy, right? There’s a word for it: C-R-A-Z-Y. Most of the time, if you listen carefully enough, BPD’s will even admit that they feel ‘crazy.’ That’s because . . . THEY ARE!!

    Inside a BPD, there are two people fighting: a REAL SELF, that wants to take over, and a FALSE SELF that will do anything it can – NO HOLDS BARRED – to survive. It’s like a viscious knife fight. If you’re in a relationship with a BPD, THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE IN THE MIDDLE OF.

    Might as well find the worst bar in town, wait for a fight to start, and jump in the middle. The odds of survival are better.

    • savorydish said

      Once again Zee, you hit all the right points.

      My ex was very FAKE. I didn’t realize how fake she was until the very end when the mask fell off. And let me tell you, the reality was startling.
      From the very beginning, I knew she was screwed up. I just didn’t realize how screwed up. With borderline relationships, you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. It’s not until the illusion disintegrates that you realize what you’re dealing with.

      And yes, my ex did confess to being crazy. It was always when I was about to walk out on the relationship. Her confession was just another manipulative tactic she used to pull me back, like her fake tears. This was the only time she would show me vulnerability. But this was all an act. She was pulling at my heart strings. As you said, it is her survival tactic.

      • Zee said

        “yes, my ex did confess to being crazy. It was always when I was about to walk out on the relationship.”

        I give you credit, Savory. Mine basically told me up front – FROM THE BEGINNING. What does that say about me? 😉

        Seriously though: most of the time, crazy women give us plenty of hints (red flags) RIGHT UP FRONT. It’s just that it takes EXPERIENCE to learn what they are and what to do with them. Most every guy has been with that ONE crazy chick; it’s the guys who’ve been with a succession of CRAZY CHICKS who just can’t seem to learn from it. Sometimes it takes a lot of therapy. Sometimes it just takes some schooling from men with experience.

        Here are some RED FLAGS that I look out for. Some of them are right out of the DSMV. And guess what: they are usually SPOT ON.

        1) Erratic work history.

        2) Erratic residential history.

        3) Lack of long-term friendships. Tumultous personal relationships.

        4) WAY to sexual WAY too early. Porn-sex right from the gate is ALWAYS a sign of a crazy woman. ALWAYS, with no exceptions. Such women will say that they just ‘really like sex’ or they’re ‘very sexual,’ etc. But in REALITY, they use sex to manipulate and glom on to people and to treat their emotional dysregulation. Sex is one of the primary SURVIVALTOOLS of the BPD.

        Normal people usually take a little while to get comfortable enough to be ‘crazy’ sexually. A normal woman does not ask you to tie her up within the first two weeks of a relationship. A normal woman does not show up at your door with a Naughty Nurse outfit for your second or third sexual encounter. Women who do these things have BIG PROBLEMS. Always, with no excpetions.

        5) Victim narrative.

        6) Lack of long-term love relationships.

        7) She actually SAYS she’s crazy.

        — Watch out for #7 in particular. It’s amazing how it flies right past most guys 😉

      • savorydish said

        I can’t take too much credit. That was still early on in the relationship. But our common experience says something about co-dependent types. We hear what we want to hear. We hear “I’m crazy” but, in our heads, we hear “Help me Obi Wan, you’re my only hope”. And so we put on our Superman cape and jump right back in. This is the co-dependent game we play over and over again. It’s a fool’s game, because (in real life) true love does NOT conquer all.

        Love can not fix a lifetime of psychological trauma. Love equals intimacy and that will eventually drive the BPD even more mad. If your borderline lover was sexually molested, this is even more true. That’s why lovers make terrible therapists. On top of that, we are too emotionally invested to think straight.

        The manipulative borderline knows that and counts on that. You will become that ball of yarn they bat around. If you’re not trained to deal with BPD trauma, you are of no use to the borderline. You are making yourself a victim. You are only kidding yourself, if you think you (of all people) can make a difference.

        You are not doing the borderline any favors by standing by her side. Eject and detach immediately. Wish her well and send her to the nearest DBT therapist. Then you can spend your time working on yourself. When you are healthy, you can attract others who are also healthy. That is easier said than done, but this the only path to happiness for co-dependents.

      • savorydish said

        It is always easier said than done, especially if the histrionic/borderline woman presents herself as your dream come true. It’s not the ones with green hair and nose rings that we need to worry about. You can see them from miles away. It’s the ones who have trained themselves to get in close. They have learned to put on camo. In public, she acts like the girl you wanna bring home to mom and dad. In private, she acts like a porn star. What mortal man can resist this dual package. But it’s this conflicting image that should be a red alert. This is a woman with an identity crisis and conflicting emotions. This kind of duality will drive you mad. BTW the good sex never lasts. Once intimacy creeps in, the porn star sex turns to dust. The damaged woman has her best sex with strangers in the stairwell of a garage while doped out on drugs and beer.

  11. Zee said

    “Once intimacy creeps in, the porn star sex turns to dust.”

    But they will use sex to hoover you back in when you break up with them. That’s a classic.

    “It’s not the ones with green hair and nose rings that we need to worry about.”

    True. Can’t go just on looks. But . . . I’ve learned to look for subtle clues. One is an ‘askew’ kind of look, as if she just missed getting hit by a train or something. My ex had that look, even through she wore $2000 boots and handbags.Doesn’t matter WHAT she’s wearing; if the ‘look’ is there, watch out. It’s an indicator of an crazy INTERIOR STATE.

    And need I see one should always thoroughly examine the contents of their medicine cabinets and be on the lookout for prescription bottles? A person can only hide that stuff for so long.

    I actually lived in a building with a young woman who was covered in tattoos, changed her hair color regularly, etc, etc. She was a music photographer. One of the nicest, most straightforward people I ever met. So yeah . . . crazy is often in the details. Gotta look in the nooks and crannies – and if a person is too codependent to do that . . .

    • savorydish said

      Wow, that’s eerie. I also have a neighbor that changes her hair color every week. Nice girl. But one time, I walked past her door and heard spanking and dirty talk. All the signs are there. So I know what you mean, there are always outward expressions of the inner turmoil. If a girl is really into “oufits and 2000 dollar boots”, they are probably covering up something.

  12. dskennan said

    I’ve been reading this blog for a few weeks. I was trying to figure out the appropriate time to jump into the discussion. Now’s a good a time as any…

    Here’s the ultra-compressed back story…

    I dated a woman for 4 months in the spring/summer of 2011. I’m in my late 30s and she is in her mid 20s. She lived about 150km in a small city, whereas I lived in the 1M+ big city. We hit it off smashingly well, to the point where she was spending every weekend with me after a short time. The relationship was actually quite measured and reasonable in its progression. There were no obvious early warning signs (more on that later…). She was reluctant to get fully intimate early, but it was far from a deal breaker. In mid-August, she was accepted into graduate school in my city and was head-over-heels that we would be closer together. By this point, the intimacy threshold was starting to elevate. I was invited to meet her parents and siblings at the lake cabin. By the end of that weekend, her mother was giving me hugs and expressing that she “hoped to see me again soon”. Normally, that’s an excellent sign when moms emote that way. Dad, on the other hand, was a bit surly. By the return to the Big City, if anyone had asked me, I would have said “it’ll take 3 years, but I’m going to marry this girl.” Life was grand. My girlfriend was a stunner, was clearly a genius in certain regards, and had a quiet, self-deprecating way. My friends and family hadn’t seen me so beamingly happy in a very long time.

    Four days later, I get a text message that read “I don’t think this is going to work out. I don’t think we’re a good match. It has nothing to do with school. Sorry. Take care.” The girl went incommunicado – no responses to text messages, emails, phone calls, plus she blocked me on Facebook. Five days after the silence started, I called her at work, but called the switchboard to have them transfer the call. It was clear she was filtering by Caller ID. She refused to tell me what happened, until I pushed hard. She then broke down: “My parents don’t believe you’re the appropriate choice of life partner for me”. This was a major ego blow, since, while I’m picky in my choice of partners, I have been described for many years by a multitude of others (and mothers!) as “a mother’s dream”. My “girlfriend” did agree to talk to me about the issue once she moved to my city. I did have some feedback from others that one of the base issues was probably that her dad – a self-made millionaire, brutish man with at least one patent under his belt – took major exception to me (“Her dad likely ended this. You are too much of a threat to him.”)

    The next weekend (2 weeks after the break-up text), I get a text message in the middle of the night: “I wish things weren’t so complicated, but they are.” I had a short, positive interaction with her on the phone a few days later, but I was holding back until she had moved. A day after the phone interaction, I received two short emails that was decidedly out of her character. It read like they were written under duress, like a gun was being held to her head. They essentially said “I can’t view our relationship with any clarity right now. Hopefully in a month, I’ll be able to reflect and give you a sense of direction” and then “We’re not going to work out. You’ve crossed my boundaries. My parents and I are in agreement. Moving isn’t going to change things. Sorry for the confusion.” (The boundaries were never described, BTW) In response, I wrote one of “those emails that girls never delete” (or old-school, “the letters that they will never throw away”). On the September long weekend, she moved. And she changed her cell phone number.

    Three weeks later, I run into her downtown when she was out with some new classmates. Her response shocked me. She hid behind one of her classmates, turned her face away, and cowered “I don’t want to talk to him”. She looked terrible. This beautiful, 105 lbs, size 0 woman looked like she had been through the wringer. Broken. Shattered. I didn’t want to cause a scene, so I simply asked that she call me, then I left.

    Over the next 3 weeks, she’s surfing photos on my private website, primarily looking at photos ONLY of her. I know it was her doing the surfing, because the site is indeed private and the originating IP address traced back to her faculty at the university. On top of it, she’s surfing these photos at the oddest hours of the night – 3 to 4am. Who is pulling all-nighters 3 weeks into school? She’s not responding to my emails, but she is surfing photos on an on-going basis.

    I run into her once more, and she pulled the same “turn and hide” stunt. I decide that there is something decidedly wrong here, so what do I do? Yep. I write a letter to her mom. Old school. I explain that I loved her daughter and that something happened after the meeting at the lake, something that made no sense. The girl who couldn’t spend enough time with me couldn’t even look me in the eye now.

    Two weeks later, I get a phone call from her mother: “You were side-swiped. This came out of nowhere. And you will NEVER KNOW WHAT CAUSED THIS.” (This last phase was repeated more than a few times.” “She doesn’t deal well with emotions. I told her to call you to give you closure, and she refused. We had nothing to do with this. This was all her doing. We have never interfered in her life as parents” This call lasts about 20 minutes. During that time, mom sounds like, from a tone standpoint, that she’s trying to get the bloodhound (a.k.a. me) off the trail.

    Now the interesting part is that the day before, I figured out that I’m actually friends with one of her cousins. I called my friend and asked about the family. His response? “I’ve always thought there was something weird about that family.” What about dad? “He’s a very smart and successful man… and he’s a complete f**king a****le… and I’m not going to go into why.” Ok. There’s family laundry there… no question.

    She’s been No Contact, including no photo surfing, since the letter to her mother.

    So that’s the back story… Through this whole experience, I have people coming out of the wood work to support me. It was all very unexpected. One old, but casual, friend tells me after hearing the story: “I was that girl 10 years ago when you met me. You have no idea how much she’s hurting right now. It’s the lowest of the low. I grew up in a similar command and control household. You’re going to oscillate between being a white knight to a dark horseman of the apocalypse with her and her mother for the next year or so. But just know that this isn’t over…” (My friend, when I met her, was going through ‘group therapy’. She never explained it, and I never asked.)

    I bump into a friend and his fiancee. They hadn’t seen me in a while, so I told them the story. The fiancee is a PhD psychologist who deals with troubled teens. After 10 minutes, she cocks her head to the side and says “I don’t think I need to hear any more. I think you need to read up on Borderline Personality Disorder. I see stories like yours 3 or 4 times a month in my practice.”

    This started my path down the BPD research road. And was it ever eye-opening. Why? Because, with the benefit of a semi-photographic memory, I was able to replay situations in my head and pick up subtle hints that my ex-gf dropped in conversation that pointed into known issues. Of course, they were not obvious at the time. And I’ve dated enough crazies in the past that I have great feelers for this kind of stuff. These hints were always wrapped in some form of humour. A statement about dad here. A comment about herself there. And so on. They were masked, but they were there. They were _everywhere_.

    Shortly afterward, I figured out that an old colleague of mine in another city was friends on Facebook with my ex. I emailed him. The response blew me away: “I dated her for a few months two years ago. She just up and disappeared on me. I’ve wondered for 2 years what happened” We had a follow-up phone conversation and told our stories. It was like having the incomplete pieces of a puzzle being filled in by the other guy. I mentioned the possibility of a personality disorder along the lines of BPD. Lo and behold, the other guy is a high school guidance counselor. By the time an hour was up, we had 7 of the 9 DSM criteria that had been observed by one or both of us. The observed evidence is pretty hard to refute. On top of it, neither guy had an ax to grind. We were simply trying to find answers to situations that left both of us feeling like a best friend had suddenly died. And if I had been more heavily invested in the relationship than the other guy and he was still asking questions 2+ years later, I realized that I better get on the train to recovery right quick!

    So you’d think that would be the end of it? No. I head off to South America to go hiking. One of my newly-found friends is from the UK and we start sharing stories. I tell the story about my ex. He responds with his own story about being involved with and engaged to a woman with raging BPD behaviour. Another travel mate – an old retired professor – tells me about his youngest daughter who exhibits similar traits. His comment: “I think her mother felt terrible about what happened. That’s why she called you. We’ve had similar experiences with our daughter. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to get into a relationship with her. I think her mother was doing the same. i think she was trying to do you a favour.”

    I figured out that my ex-girlfriend is likely a Borderline Waif. She never raged externally and I never had any bad or negative experiences with her. I struggled for many months about what might have occurred and whether or not she had any conscious understanding of what might be wrong with her. Her mother knows something is wrong, but knowing something is wrong is different that having a formal diagnosis. Oh yeah, mom has a graduate degree in social work too.

    Recently, through a confluence of events, I came to realization that the Benadryl gel caps that my ex kept for “allergy attacks” weren’t likely for allergies. More like “anxiety attacks”. It would seem that Benadryl is a poor man’s alternative to prescription meds and that one essentially needs to be told by “someone in the know” that if you don’t have access to your panic meds, pop a Benadryl to take the edge off. A colleague who suffers from GAD confirmed that if my ex was aware enough to have Benadryl around, she’s aware enough to know that she dis-regulates emotionally and has panic attacks.

    Through the magic of Google and Twitter, it becomes more obvious (through ramblings of her younger siblings) that that great household of theirs isn’t exactly a replica of the Waltons. If I were my ex, I’d lose it on them. All this proves is that the apples don’t fall far from the tree.

    That’s the capsule summary of the last 10 months. (I’ve dropped a lot of additional evidence in an attempt at brevity. Haha.) I was dating an unconfirmed, but highly probable, Borderline Waif. She’s been completely NC for 9 months. And everyone I’ve talked to who has shared a personal experience with BPD or another major PD concurs that I have 90% of the story figured out. And they all agree that “it’s not over”. It may be done for now and I’m doing my damnedest to move on, but there is likely more to occur in the future.

    So why the long-winded post? Because, at some level, I’m still right pissed off that this pile of crap was dropped in my lap. Savory is a massively amplified version of me. And I appreciate his candor. My experience has forced me to dig in order to create my own closure. What did I find? That my pile of crap came from a larger cesspool. I would have preferred a raging ex-girlfriend, but instead I drew the card that reads “silent treatment”. On top of that, my ex flipped the switch right at that point where a guy crosses that threshold and determines that a girl is “the one”. Tough cards to have to play…

    Did a dodge a bullet? No. I dodged a howitzer by dancing through a mine field. How do I know that? By reading the myriad of anecdotes contained on this blog and others.

    To those out these recovering from their experiences with partners suffering from personality disorders and the panoply of peripheral issues, you all have my highest regards.

    I’ll try to chime in on future posts when appropriate.

    • savorydish said

      Thanks for sharing your story. It never ceases to amaze me how similar all our stories are. That is no coincidence. It is this commonality that offers some comfort to those whose lives have been devastated by a hit and run artist. These stories confirm that you were not imagining a strange occurrence. Something was very wrong. On some level, we all knew that. But to finally find answers (answers based on science and reason) to all your questions brings some relief. The pain you feel is real. Don’t ever let anyone (especially those who bear a striking resemblance to BPs) dismiss what you feel. You can not heal, until you acknowledge that pain. Don’t expect your BPD ex to acknowledge the pain they have caused you. You have to find closure on your own. Be well, everyone.

  13. Zee said

    “Don’t expect your BPD ex to acknowledge the pain they have caused you. You have to find closure on your own.”

    That’s a key point, and probably one of the most important for a man who is healing from a BPD relationship.

    CLOSURE is basically when two people from a failed relationship ‘let bygones be bygones,’ and call it a day. BPD’S are incapable of this. They have NEVER let bygones be bygones because they are suffering from unresolved TRAUMA, There are no BYGONES in an untreated BPD’s world. There is only a relentless pain that is HERE AND NOW. That relentless pain comes with serious baggage: skewed belief systems, toxic behavioral patterns, adolsescent communication skills . . . such things prevent any possibility of ‘closure.’

    When I hear the words ‘closure’ and ‘borderline’ together in a sentence, I wince. IT ‘AINT NEVER GONNA HAPPEN – so get it outta your head.

    If you try to get ‘closure’ from and untreated BPD (and from most treated ones), you will get NAPALM. An untreated borderline is an emotional vampire. Either one of two things will happen: 1) she will be gone, in the wind, as if nothing ever happened, or 2) she will do anything to keep the toxic exchange going because she still needs to feed off your emotional energy.

    That’s it: one of two of the above,

    I made the mistake of trying to get closure from my BPD ex. Instead, I got a barrage of crude, meaningless drivel that sounded like it should have been scrawled on the walls of a psych ward in lipstick. It was almost TOO TYPICAL. ‘I hate you / I still love you / all we had was sex / I miss holding your hand / I’m not gonna change who I am for anyone / blah blah blah shriek cry blah blah . . . I reached a point where it literally felt like there was an IV in my arm and she was draining my life-force through it.

    If she is suffering from extreme emotional lability, a BPD will translate “Get away from me, you whore,” into “Yay, he still wants to talk to me!!” You see how it works? She’ll use ANYTHING to keep the toxic exchange going. An untreated borderline LIVES off of the energy created by chaos and emotional warfare. Doesn’t matter if it’s POSITIVE or NEGATIVE. To them, it’s blood, life-force. Their souls are empty, so they need YOUR energy to fill them.

    I guess because I’m a creative person, I tend to think in metaphors. But the metaphor is apt, is it not? How many of you felt physically drained for a few weeks after breaking up with your BPD? Did you have that ‘BPD flu?’ It’s no wonder. The woman you were with WAS literally draining the life-energy out of you.

  14. dskennan said

    Physically drained? From the time of the breakup until Christmas 4 months, I dropped 15 pounds. I stayed at that final weight for another 3 months. The stress was literally consuming me. In the last 3 months, I’ve moved back up to my normal, healthy weight.

    What blew me away was that my ex-gf, after the breakup and within the 4 weeks prior to our first accidental crossing of paths, probably dropped 10 lbs. That’s a lot of weight for a woman who is a size 0 and would normally tip the scales at about a buck-o-five. She looked brutal. When I spoke with her mother a month later after writing ‘the letter’, her mother said ‘she’s never looked and felt better. She’s the happiest she’s ever been’. Yeah, whatever. Nice attempt at misdirection, Mrs Houdini.

    The day of the path crossing, my ex found herself in a group photograph that was later published online in a community blog. I showed that group photo and another of the two of us from 6 weeks earlier to a myriad of people. Most had a hard time picking her out. Even a number of my friends who had spent a lot of time with my ex had to do double and triple takes. It’s one thing to change a hair or makeup or clothing style after a dysregulation or after taking up with a new group of friends or with a replacement. It’s another thing entirely to drop a significant amount of weight.

    In my case, the best explanation for this is that the stress and anxiety levels in my ex must have blown off the chart. People don’t naturally add or drop weight that dramatically in a short period of time.

    As for crude, meaningless drivel, my friend who dated her for a short time 2 years earlier said that when he texted her about confirming a meet-up, she responded with ‘a bunch of random text, symbols, and jibberish. It made no sense, so I texted her back. I never heard from her again.’

    My drivel was even more obtuse. I heard essentially nothing from my ex. It was like her lips were sewn together and fingers unable to type. She was unable to say anything to me, until I found an art assignment posted on her school blog. Here was a drawing/collage of two llamas superimposed on a background that is essentially a hand-drawn elevation map of the Inca Trail, surrounded by English language phrases that are tantamount to jibberish. The best part is that this was the trip we were planning on taking together last fall before she was accepted in the summer into graduate school. When was it posted? Right as I was finishing hiking into Machu Picchu. Of all the subject matter in the world to choose from and of all the possible timings… Pure coincidence? I think not.

    As I said in an earlier post, I would have just preferred a PFO letter. Instead, I get to waste months deciphering chaos theory into constituent components that are really governed by Occam’s Razor. At least my propositional logic skills are now scalpel sharp…

  15. Henley said

    Hey Savory,

    The comments above on closure. I guess I want to ask more on that.

    My last interaction with, well, let’s call him Satan, was a phone call last week where he told me that I was a liar, a hypocrit, serious mental illness (he insists I’m bi-polar and/or BPD),and that I’m responsible for him cheating on me and (this is the one that hurts the most) that he’s sorry I was ever in his life and his life is worse because of me.

    This conversation was so ungrounded in reality and brutal and is the last thing that let me let go. I have no remaining guilt over anything I could have helped, I regret the time I spent loving him, and realize everything was thrown on a bed of ungratefulness.

    I said Go with God. He said snidely, same to you.

    What the hell was that whole conversation about??

    My real question to you…. is there ever any closure? Any fondness or remaining kindness of we knew each other as humans? I hate having anonomosity with anyone in the world so this bothers me.

    To me, it feels wrong, and that is my gut feeling that its a sin. I’ve tried to say let’s forgive and go on and I’m met with being called a hypocrit. Does anyone (him, his family) ever act like real people again? Should I just erase that I ever knew them?

    • savorydish said

      The animosity was not your making, it was his. His family was damaged long before he met you. Whatever illusion you had that made them seem normal was just an illusion. You will never be able to erase these strange creatures from your memory. But you can live and learn. Learn to break the pattern that we have all fallen into.

      • Sammy said

        Hey @ SavoryDish …I feel the same as in What do you do after you have gained all your little info on the BPD ex and life seems like it favors her ….they move on leaving you in the dust …treating you as the bad guy and though you never existed in their life….the high functioning ones do even better ……, And how do us the fucked over get well ….How do we get our swag back ….How do we mend our broken hearts and spirits…???? How man:(

      • savorydish said

        It’s not easy to get your swagger back. Someone betrayed our trust. They took advantage of our good nature. So naturally we will be angry and hurt. Some will advise you to get back in the game. I disagree. It would be foolish to jump back into another relationship if you have a history with troubled women. You need to avoid serious relationships until you figure out why you make the choices you do. To break this pattern, you have to educate yourself. Ask why these women gravitate towards you. This requires honesty on your part. Once you figure this out, you can work towards personal change. Don’t be afraid to get help if you need it. That is how you get your swagger back. Good luck and best wishes.

  16. Zee said

    “What the hell was that whole conversation about??My real question to you…. is there ever any closure? Any fondness or remaining kindness of we knew each other as humans?”

    No.

    As mentioned . . . Borderlines, and most Cluster B’s in general, are incapable of these things. They are toxic people – emotional vampires. They create chaos, strife, and napalm. Period. End of story. Wanting ‘normal’ interractions with these people is like going to the hardware store for eggs.

    The fact that you’re still asking these things, despite getting what you got and what you’ve already read here, means that you know the answer, but you haven’t been able to accept it EMOTIONALLY. This is natural, and you can’t be blamed for it. You’re a human being with feelings. It’ll take some time, but gradually, you’ll come to understand that there are some things you’ll have to get on your own.

    In the meantime, the best thing you can do is get on with your life. Pick up your hobbies. Re-connect with friends and family. Excercise, eat well, etc, etc. Success is the best revenge, as they say.

    • savorydish said

      “Wanting ‘normal’ interractions with these people is like going to the hardware store for eggs.”

      I agree with everything said by Zee. Closure is a luxury that ex-partners of BPs do not enjoy. That’s what happens when you get in deep with someone who is emotionally shallow. You are dealing with experts in the field of compartmentalizing and suppressing painful memories. While they are dusting off their shoulders, you are reeling in pain. While you are pining for “what was”, they are wondering why you don’t “move the fuck on”. That is the difference between Nons and BPs. The sooner you learn this difference (ie. internalize it), the better off you will be for the next round. Best of luck.

      • savorydish said

        That being said, some of the most successful people I know (in love, art and business) are people who have failed over and over again. They lived and they learned. With each fall, they learned how to pick themselves up. To build up immunity to heart-break, you have to experience it. Easier said than done. I know. But there is hope. It resides with you. Not them.

  17. Zee said

    Right on the money, Savory. It can be the other way too. In my case, I told her like ten times to NOT contact me. In one ear, out the other. And the harsher I was about it, the harder it was for her to let go.

    It’s hard to wrap our heads around the fact that we were dealing with individuals who view the world in a very different way than everyone else. What’s up is down, what’s left is right, etc, etc. One of the characteristics of BPD’s is incongruent responses to common, every day events. Their wires are crossed.

    • savorydish said

      “One of the characteristics of BPD’s is incongruent responses to common, every day events.Their wires are crossed”

      This is the effect of lifelong abuse. The more abusive you are, the more they want you. You are reminding them of someone who once abused/abandoned them. The nicer you are, the faster they run away. You are foreign and strange to them. This is a sign that someone is royally fucked up.

      The difference is this- when a Non leaves, it’s because they are fed up with the dysfunction and abuse (aka the craziness). When a BP leaves it’s because they feel inadequate/insecure (aka you’re not fucked up enough), they split someone black, intimacy triggers memories of childhood abuse and the list goes on and on. A Non knows exactly why they are leaving. A BP hasn’t a clue because their wires are crossed.

      They are reacting to events that happened a long time ago. That’s why their responses seem incongruent. Impulsive behavior vs rational behavior. Adult behavior vs childish behavior.

      This is not about leaving or staying. It’s about the motivation behind these choices.

      • savorydish said

        You would think that if someone were molested by their father, they would stay away from him and people like him. But that is not how the traumatized mind works. Abusees and Abusers form a tight bond. Experts call this traumatic bonding.

        This is why borderlines run away from good people and run back to swine. Women who were sexually-abused as children, often say “all men are pigs”. But what they mean is “all the men I go for are pigs”. Nice guys are not a borderline woman’s type.

        Nice guys make these women feel suffocated/trapped, because intimacy threatens to swallow them. There is nothing “normal” about this kind of behavior. It is incongruent and self-destructive.

  18. Zee said

    Savory is once again spot on. Most BPD’s defintely suffer a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Clinging to abusive people while rejecting caring people is so common, it’s almost cliche.

    A lot of this stuff peaks its head out early in relationships with BPD’s. Unfortunately, most of us either haven’t been burnt enough to see it, or we’re codependent and don’t WANT to see it, or we’re just not paying attention.

    I really LISTEN to what women say now when I’m on dates or in the early stages of a potential relationship. And I listen BEFORE things get sexual, because once a crazy person hooks into you sexually, it’s VERY hard to let go.

    Once of the classics is that they actually SAY that they’re not great with intimacy!! Yes . . . they’ll just come right out and say it. ‘I’ve never really had a long-term relationship,’ or ‘I was never good at getting close . . .’ etc, etc. The trick is to OPEN YOUR EARS and LISTEN in the beginning stages. If they’re saying stuff like this, IT’S TRUE. Believe it. They are actually giving you an out right from the get-go. In fact, I think Cluster B’s often unconcsiously give people ‘outs’ in the beginning. It’s their way of saying, ‘I’m giving you a warning shot, bit if you ignore it, shame on you.’

    I think that Cluster B’s confuse these little ‘confessions’ with INTIMACY. They think they’re being ‘initimate’ by letting you in; but what they’re really telling you is that they’re assholes and you need to get away from them.

    That’s a really tall order if you’re codependent, ruled by your sexual desires, or just plain inexperienced.

    • Sammy said

      Great point ZEE ….You hit the nail on the head, my problem was number 1, I was totally inexperienced in the world of BPD …. and number 2 I had held out for a so called good woman for a while with all the STD’s and things out there …so I was a little hungry for good sex. So when I ran upon my BPD I though I had hit the jackpot of love. I had waited and I was being rewarded for my patience ….Well now I know ., See I had red flag after red flag . I just ignored them all , instead I was most days or nights like naw she didn’t mean it that way or its not been enough time she just don’t know you yet…but she knew me well enough to have unprotected sex with me 30 min after I arrived at her condo , on the very first night I met her ..hum….Boy was I dumb , I was the biggest sucker ever!!!

  19. Zee said

    Re: the above, I should add something.

    When a borderline makes their little ‘confession’ that they’ve always had trouble with intimacy or whatever, they’ll usually follow that up with a ‘But with you, it’s different. I’ve never felt so close to anyone, blah blah blah.’ The two ALWAYS go together. And the two usually take place before or after sex, or atr least in bed.

    This is a classic IDEALIZATION phase ploy – and the BPD probably doesn’t even know she’s doing it. But believe me, if I EVER hear anyting like this again from a woman, I will not even get dressed. I’ll just grab my clothes and put them on as I’m running down the hallway to catch an elevator to I’m-Fucking-Outta-Here-Ville.

    The evil thing is that BPD’s are EXPERTS at finding people who are susceptible to this crap. Recent divorces, people with unresolved codependency issues, plain old inexperiened people, etc. They reall do have sonar for emotional weakness. That’s what makes me HATE Cluster B’s. They hone in on the most fragile parts of people like locusts. They get you right at your CORE. Fucking wasters.

    • savorydish said

      Even worse, they spread their disease without any awareness or care, like Typhoid Mary. Nice people become jaded and filled with rage after being burnt by a BP. Through the magic of devaluation and false-accusations, even the kindest person is turned into Satan.

      By the time they are done with you, your reputation will be dirt. They will convince you and everyone around you that you’re the one who’s crazy. This is the borderline dragging you down to their level. If they can’t be healthy, they will make everyone else sick. This is their asshole genes at work.This is what I mean by hit and run.

      Yes, they tend to confess their deepest darkest secrets upfront but I don’t think this is to give people “outs”. I think they want to see how co-dependent you are. If you don’t leave, you’ve passed the test. They want to see how much bullshit you’ll put up with. That’s when they really let the crazies fly.

      If the bp has confessed and you are still sticking around, that is a sign that you have some serious co-dependent issues.

  20. Zee said

    “I don’t think this is to give people “outs”. I think they want to see how co-dependent you are. If you don’t leave, you’ve passed the test. They want to see how much bullshit you’ll put up with.”

    Sounds equally plausible. I think the important thingh is that when you see this kind of behavior . . . RUN.

    • savorydish said

      Agreed. But in some cases, you may not have to run. If you trip her abandonment alarm, she will run. The worst thing you can do is pass her test. If the bp has ejected you from her life, it’s a compliment. You saw through the bullshit and called her out on it. That creates massive insecurity and elevates the fear of abandonment. You have inadvertently become a source of unimaginable pain. They will run away because of this very fact.

      • savorydish said

        If you wanna get rid of a borderline. Tell her the truth. Those who are ready to seek out treatment will have already come to grips with the truth. Those in denial will run.

        My ex tried therapy for 3 days. The truth was too much for her so she ran back to denial and kicked me and her self-awareness out the door.

    • Sammy said

      Yeah …….RUN …thats right I didn’t and now I look like a total fool , She told me one day when we were talking about real relationships ……And I quote ” It takes a long time for me to trust people” , and “I am not good at being a team player in a relationship” end quote, As they say hind site is 20/20 , if I knew then what I know now ….My shoes would have been on fire leaving there…:) , She was the first to start the I love you thing , first it was I love the way you fuck me ..then it went to I love you and when I questioned it she said …And I quote again …”I don’t say things I don’t mean” end quote. 2 months later she would go to her fav watering hole and her so called friends would accuse me of being a stalker she said ok maybe he is …she told me they said this in a semi rage , then called me back to her place each and every time it even looked like I was trying to pull away.

      • savorydish said

        Borderlines tell you what you want to hear to draw you close. They tell you that you’re the only one they can trust. They tell you that they love you. But this is a person who is incapable of trust and love. So why did you allow yourself to believe all these things? Surely, part of you must have known something was up because you did question her. There was part of you that knew she was bullshitting you but yet you let it pass. Why?

        Was sex a major part of your relationship? What draws you to these women who are hyper-sexual? Troubled women use sex as bait and then they punish you when you take the bait. If a woman comes on strong from the very get-go that is your first red flag. This is a pattern you need to recognize and break.

        Her so-called friends are probably as fucked up as she is. Birds of a feather flock together. These are damaged women. They secretly hate men. You can tell by the way they treat men. Somewhere in their childhood these women were violated by someone they trusted. Most likely it was a man.

        To these troubled souls- all men are pigs, all men are stalkers and rapists. The black and white mind is not very good at separating friend from foe. Once you trip the intimacy alarm, memories of childhood abuse come pouring in.

        These women associate intimacy with predatory behavior. That is why you need to stay away from these women. They will accuse you of all sorts of things, you didn’t do. That’s what fucked up people do. Don’t try to understand them or fix them. RUN.

  21. Zee said

    “If you wanna get rid of a borderline. Tell her the truth.”

    This prompts me to tell my brief story about how I got rid of my borderline ex. I’m not real proud of it – but nothing else worked. Polite didn’t work, appealing to reason and decency didn’t work . . .

    Thank God this was over the phone. (She called me from an unknown number). Had this been in person, who knows . . .

    I told her in a nice, calm voice that she was a run-of-the-mill skank and a piece of shit liar, and that if she didn’t steer clear of me for good, I was gonna give her something real to cry about.

    That’s it. She said ‘OK’ in a perfectly normal voice, as if she was talking about the weather. I haven’t heard from her since.

    Yeah . . . the truth does tend to make them dissapear.

    This won’t work for all Borderlines. Some will call the cops and file a complaint. Some will start a smear campaign. I didn’t give a shit about any of that, and she knew it.

    I dislike violence, I seriously do. The last fight I was in was in grade-school (well, high school). But I’m not a small guy. I can be pretty scary. That probably helped.

  22. savorydish said

    I think you lucked out. Violence and the threat of it is never a good solution. It could potentially escalate things. I don’t condone violence, not even to scare off a borderline. I understand your situation. These people know how to bring out the worst in people. That is a documented fact. But that doesn’t justify abusive behavior.

    Borderline waifs are notorious for calling the cops and filing complaints. The justice system knows this, that’s why they drop hundreds of cases that reek of BPD. Congress has declared May to be BPD awareness month. They are desperate for attention. They are dying to play the victim. Don’t give them a reason to play victim.

    Awareness is the best weapon against silent abusers. You wanna get rid of a BP? Instill the fear of abandonment.

    • savorydish said

      The fear of abandonment is greater than the actual abandonment. A borderline always tries break up with you before you can break up with them. If you break up with them first, they will only try to hoover you back to buy time. They fear being alone. Then once they’ve found someone to take your place, they will split you for good. At this point, you have become a danger to them.

  23. savorydish said

    The denial continues. Two days ago, my borderline ex tweets, “My dad is amazing.” Oh, you mean the dad who exhibits questionable behavior? That dad?

    My bp ex doesn’t want to consider the possibility that her father was the one who sexually molested her.
    You can’t really blame her. Would you want to come to that realization?

    Her family is all she has. If she accepted this horrible truth, all her fears of abandonment would become reality. Denial is her fucked-up way of keeping her family together. She doesn’t want to admit that it was her family that fucked her up for life.

    Her father has worked hard to silence this blog since the day I started revealing the truth. I would get anonymous comments telling me to shut up, accusing me of being disordered. He wasn’t protecting his daughter or family. No, not the man who has done so much to harm them. He was covering his own ass. He saw that (with each post) I was getting closer and closer to the horrible truth.

    She would rather blame me for ruining her life than place blame where it belongs. When you get involved with a woman who has been abused by her own family, you become the convenient scapegoat. Easier to blame someone who means nothing to them, than to blame someone who means everything to them.

  24. dskennan said

    Just prior to meeting her family, my ex was extolling her father. ‘You two will probably get along too well.’ she tells me. She was over the moon that I was going to meet her family.

    This is the same father she commented on a month or two earlier that was ‘trying to claim me as a retarded dependent as a tax strategy’ and who, at the culmination of a successful corporate lawsuit, tossed the lawyers out of his office without signing the paperwork and with a ‘let the fuckers burn for another few weeks’ comment.

    In retrospect, it’s more than a little weird that there is this massive duality.

    We had some short email interactions right after the split, and the parental aspects were suddenly front and center. ‘My dad can do this for me…’ ‘My parents and I are in agreement that this isn’t going to work out…’ (Since when did normal, degreed, adult females let parents interfere in positive relationships?)

    After the breakup and the beginning of my silent treatment, I tracked down an old friend who dated her a few years earlier for a short time. His comments were ‘I have never seen a girl with bigger daddy issues than this girl. She put him on a pedestal, like he was a revered figure’ and ‘I asked her up front if the age difference was going to be an issue (he was 38 and she was 23). She said it wasn’t an issue for her, but it would definitely be one for her dad’.

    Then there’s the comment from another friend who married into the extended family that dad is ‘a very smart and successful man, but he’s a complete fucking asshole, and I’m not going to go into why. I have no respect for the man.’

    When her mother called me after I had written her, the first thing her mom says is ‘others didn’t want me to call you’. Others? The neighborhood? Friends? Extended family? Doubtful. It’s pretty implausible that mom polled far and wide about what to do. It’s pretty certain that mom and dad discussed the situation and mom was tasked with getting me off the trail. Mom’s tone was very ‘male’, almost like she was following a script. It was actually my own mother who, when retold the story of the phone call, said ‘mothers don’t typically talk that way’ and ‘this sounds like mom is towing the line’.

    If you take a sheet of paper and draw the inter-relationships, the only really plausible explanation, beyond a disorder within my ex, is that massive bouts of triangulation occur in that household. Mapping the relationships is a pretty simple exercise at that point. You can’t escape logic and rational thought.

    Based on some discussions with a psychologist and with a female friend who hasn’t said so directly but is almost certainly a recovering BPD and with an older friend who described himself as ‘being that dad 25 years ago’, the intimacy/abandonment issues within my ex will be exacerbated by interrelations with her family members. Dad has his own plethora of emotional and control issues. If his power base is waning (he is semi-retired and the kids are all essentially out of the house), I would be perceived as a threat to his increasingly fragile kingdom.

    My older friend admitted he interfered in his own daughters’ relationships two decades ago. He isn’t proud of that fact and said that he would wield influence with cash. (I also know this friend has also had anger and depression issues for a LONG time) He also said that his girls would never push back ‘if they knew what was good for them’. He’s absolutely convinced from his own experiences that my ex’s father was the one who ‘flipped the switch’ for my ex. ‘There’s no way a woman in her 20s is going to go against the wishes of her parents if they’ve always been heavy-handed, and especially so if she has issues of her own.’

    Even after nearly 10 months of passive-aggressive silent treatment by my ex, I’m still being told by people I trust ‘you know this isn’t over, right?’

  25. dskennan said

    My female recovering BPD friend told me it’ll probably play out like this:

    My ex and her mother will oscillate for probably two years between viewing me as a white knight or a black rider of the apocalypse. This is because my letter let it be known to the family in a roundabout way that their secrets can be seen by others.

    Until all the kids have finished their degrees and are out from under dad’s thumb (wallet), there is going to be on-going and intense tension when the family gets together.

    For my ex, it’ll probably be another 3, 4 or 5 years until there is an event that precipitates the bottom falling out of her relationship with dad. It’ll be bad. It’ll make the events of the summer of 2011 look like a walk in the park. It’ll probably be triggered by on-going and intense paternal interference.

    In the meantime, being a waif with low sexual confidence, it’s unlikely she’s going to have any relationships with males of duration or of quality. It’s going to be a LONG time before she ever brings someone home to meet the family. She might start experimenting with women because relationships with males are just too difficult and too painful to try to work out.

    Once she wholly realizes how much of a prick her father is, her world is going to crumble. Since she has no emotional compass, she is going to have to seek some counsel because she will have no ability to discern up from down, left from right, top from bottom. The therapist will eventually ask a question along the lines of “was there ever a time that someone outside of your family told you that they loved and accepted you without condition?” At that point in time, she will remember the letter you wrote to her mother. ‘That letter is the biggest gift you could give her… and she won’t know it for years. When she has nothing, that will give her a starting point on trying to rebuild.’

    [By this point in the conversation, my friend is tearing up. Her entire commentary was so fluidly and cogently delivered, it’s clear she’s been through something very similar. This is where she says ‘I was that girl 10 years ago’, ‘You really don’t understand what you’ve done for her’, and ‘This isn’t over…’]

    [This all being said, my friend was a bit of a disaster 5 to 10 years years ago. Now, she’s ‘less worse’ – a more manageable mess, who still dates guys with significant jerk factors and who still can’t handle being intimate with decent, stand-up males. ‘Recovering BPD’ is certainly in the eye of the beholder. ‘Less worse’ is the operative term.]

  26. Zee said

    “Now, she’s ‘less worse’ – a more manageable mess . . .”

    I saw a therapist for a year in NYC. He worked in a BPD ward for 2 years under Otto Kernberg. He told me flat out that Borderlines do not get better, and that all you can do is ‘tweak it around the edges a bit.’ Other than that, what you see is what you get.

    He explained to me that, fundamentally, BPD is a CHARACTEROLOGICAL problem, and that there’s much you can do with it. It’s roots run deep and the longer the maladaptive behavior goes on, the more it becomes entrenched. He does not believe, as many psychs do, that BPD symptoms lessen with age. His view is that the behaviors become more subtle but do not decrease in emotional harmfulnes. I posited the theory that as time goes on, and the BPD alienates more and more people, there’s smply no one left to witness how insane she is. Plus, as a woman gets older, her sexual options diminish. Hence, a primary BPD tool to form attachments is less available. And so, less attachments, and less re-enactment of trauma. But a Borderline at age 50 who hasn’t been in a relationship for 5 or 6 years will still be triggered as if she were 25 years old.

    He just looked at me and said, ‘Yup.’

    Dudes, this guy looked straight at me and said, ‘They’re con artists. You can’t trust them, They believe their own lies. I feel for them, I really do, but it has to be from a distance. That’s why I don’t treat them. They’ll destroy my career before I make them better. They’re emotional vampires and they’ll suck you dry and leave you for dead.’ Then he told me a stories of how he would watch 16 year old girls manipulate entire wards and have Harvard trained doctors at each others throats.

    Scary shit, man. This guy is a battle-hardened NYC therapist, and he won’t go NEAR THEM.

    It’s a shame. It really is. I actually came to believe in the SOUL as a real thing after my relationship with a BPD. I was kind of on the fence about the whole ‘soul’ thing until I saw one that was completely shattered. It was kind of terrifying and ironic at the same time.

    Like my therapist, I can feel for them . . . but at a distance. Too many people are counting on me and want to see me stick around. I could never do that if I took on that soul-sickness.

    That’s what it is, man. A soul-disease. I told my therapist that. You’d think that he would have given the common, secular, wishy-washy response. He AGREED.

    • dskennan said

      Soul. Interesting concept it is…

      With my ex, whenever I looked deep into her eyes [the window to the …], I saw a shattered little girl looking back at me.

      Every deep gaze I had where I was searching for connection had one simple concept return to me… A little girl looking up with a longing that sadly emoted “did I do ok?”

      And this was the point where she just wanted to be held tight… in silence.

  27. Zee said

    “He explained to me that, fundamentally, BPD is a CHARACTEROLOGICAL problem, and that there’s much you can do with it.”

    I meant to say there’s NOT much.

  28. Sammy said

    All I can say here Zee is WOW , I knew it!!!! See I have these feelings that at times I feel like I was lacking in some way to reach this BPD ex , and that some other man will make me look like a lesser of a man , by taking care of her and giving her what she wants and needs , I started think as recently as a week or so ago that this person has a rotting soul …it stinks …, ya know my Borderline ex went to Stern NYU for grad school , she didn’t complete it but did almost 2 years there..wow …., But I am with you here totally , She is a total spaz a total con artist. And she is a master of the switch , she will switch every thing you say around or say something to you and a hour later say that she din’t say that…This post by you Zee and touched my heart cause I now know that this person whom I love is dombed …she is going to continue to con people and make fools out of whom ever she can …..Also she have one girl friend here that backs everything she does and I feel she is as fucked up as my ex…..Wow thanks Zee for posting this doctors words …It helps in the process of ejecting this person from my life , I want her out of my life , my thoughts the whole shebang , And its been very hard to eject this person why, not because of sex , but I feel totally wronged and used by this person and I want a I am sorry from her ., even if I had to chocke it out of her …I am a chicago boy ….as I have posted here many times before and I am a firm believer in the chicago way. I have some stories I could tell , that a different blog . but this blog ..”THANKS SAVORYDISH” as kelp me from doing things I know I should not do …It gave someone to talk to when I had no one, I am a reasonable , honorable man .., I told one of my buddies about this about a week ago , and much to my shargrin , he laughed and told me wow man you just got caught looking the other way and he was right , I have to accept that fact .in this one” I just got caught”…, I have never dated one of these before ! I was looking for love ….I never bloged this but I have been divorced for 12 years ..and felt it was time I start looking for a life partner again . and that my explain why I was caught up in this.

  29. Sammy said

    and that may explain why

  30. Sammy said

    Oh something helped that I read yesterday @SAVORYDISH …..that once a BPD has cut you out of their life , they have paid you the optimum complement …I thought a lot about that one as well….

  31. Sammy said

    The reason I say doomed is that My BPD ex once told me and I quote …” I can’t wait to turn 40″ …. end quote , she turned 38 on may 28th ….two more years and her fate is sealed for ever if it isn’t already!!!! She has this sense I think that this will go away at 40..damn fool she is , with her crazy thinking!!!

    • Zee said

      A few things, Sammy.

      One, any woman who says she can’t wait till she turns 40 is completely insane. NO WOMAN likes to age. This is an incrongruent statement in relation to most women. It’s like hearing a woman say she hates shoes. No woman hates shoes, right? Just more evidence that this psycho is a few sandwhiches short of a picnic.

      Second, you didn’t just get caught looking the other way. You got sideswiped and twisted in a massive wreck. You have to be carefull who you talk to about these things. Those who have no idea . . . HAVE NO IDEA. Don’t go to the hardware store for eggs.

      Third, my borderline was a spaz as well. I did NOT get the ‘waif’ type. In places like NYC, I think you’re more likely to get the obnoxious, spazzy type. It’s a cultural thing. In a way, I’m glad I didn’t get a waif. I probably would have stayed longer.

      Forth – and remember this – DO NOT waste your empathy on a person who is unable to return it. Empathy is a valuable human emotion. It’s a treasure. Do no cast your pearls before swine, as the Good Book says. (I’m not a religious guy, but there sure is some good stuff in there.) If you show empathy to a Borderline, she will use it against you. That’s what they do.

      Fifth – and I mean this in a constructive way – try breaking up your writing into paragraphs. It makes it easier to read. You have valuable things to add and I wouldn’t want anyone to miss out.

      Anyways, I’m glad I could help at least one dude out there. Takes the sting off my own experience. Cheers, man. I’m sure you’ll be OK.

      And if you want to find a quality woman, go back to Chicago. The coastal cities are replete with psychos.

      Best – Zee

      • Sammy said

        I am in CHi TOWN ZEE ….., thats where I found this creep !!!!!, Thinks I am trying to do better with the way I type here.

        Sammy , Thanks pal!

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