Should Fucked Up People Be in a Relationship?
June 2, 2011
This controversial question asked on Tumblr:
Should you be in a relationship if you’re massively fucked up? If you’re broken?
The idea that people cannot find (do not deserve) love, particularly true or perfect love, if they are ‘broken’ or ‘damaged’ is in fact quite common in this society. Many people happily parrot this idea along with self-helpy jargon like needing to love yourself before you seek love. Which is a reminder to broken people, to people who may hate themselves for whatever reason, that they don’t deserve love (we don’t deserve so many things…to live, to speak, to have opinions…).
It is also particularly common to claim that people with mental illness, some diagnoses in particular, are inherently bad and dangerous and harmful and shouldn’t be in relationships/don’t deserve love because they will just hurt people. People have told me to my face at feminist conferences that people with my diagnoses are damaging and dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed to have relationships. Human connections.
The idea of denying love to any human being repulses me. The idea of proudly crowing that you feel some human beings don’t deserve love, or friendship, can never find these things, because they are ‘sick’…it’s not particularly new or revolutionary.
Hi C wrote:
I completely disagree.
Not about the idea that people who have mental illnesses don’t deserve to find love, or that they are inherently bad.
But about the idea that you shouldn’t work on yourself before entering a relationship. I don’t think that’s an ableist idea. I think those who call that an ableist idea are making a mockery of sick people who are actually making an effort to “work on themselves”, and who are at the same time are working themselves to the bone, trying to take care of the people who love them and who they love.
Its not about you anymore when you join with someone else. That’s what’s at the heart of it when people say “you have to work on yourself before you enter a relationship”. You become semi-responsible for that other person’s health and wellness. You can’t burden them like that, because its just not fair to that other person.
Relationships aren’t about completing each other, or finding that special person who you can dump all your shit onto and have it be okay. That’s not fair, and that’s co-dependency to the hilt. That’s also breeding grounds for an abusive relationship. Relationships are two individuals coming together and loving each other and leaning on each other to an extent. If you can’t respect another person’s boundaries, maybe you shouldn’t be in a relationship.
Doesn’t matter what you have, what you are; doesn’t give anyone the right to throw all of their shit onto another person and expect them to hold themselves and you up completely — because that’s just the way you are, and you can’t help it. No. Absolutely not.
One does not lose all semblance of personal responsibility just because you have emotional illnesses.
Love, especially romantic love, isn’t something anyone deserves. That kind of connection with another human being is something you earn.
There’s a difference between accepting your diagnosis and understanding that you might never become “like others”, and not harming other people. And yeah, I define being in a relationship before you’re ready to be in a relationship that way.
I’m sorry if reading this hurts anyone. I just… I don’t know what else to say. That post hit me so hard with its wrongness. My feelings on this are entirely bound up in my (very negative) relationships with mentally ill people and my own experience being a mentally ill person in a relationship in which I put far too much of my own shit onto said boyfriend. If I could take back all of it, I would. The guilt keeps me up at night. The only way I’ve gotten this far into recovery is the thought that I’m going to make amends and never again be so disrespectful of the people I love.
allyourlovearebelongtome wrote:
I agree completely. I’m a depressive and have struggled with severe depression in the past. I’ve also been in relationships (all kinds) with mentally ill people. And guess what? It fucking hurts to hold yourself and another person up. You have to recognize when you’re a danger to others’ wellbeing. Love is not a commodity; everyone deserves a specific kind of love. But not everyone deserves a partner. Relationships with some types of mentally ill people can very easily become mentally/emotionally abusive. You don’t have to stick around for that out of guilt.
If you’re a regular reader of this blog, you know my views on this topic. But I’m gonna chew on this for a bit before I post my comments down below. In the meantime- What do you think?
My first reaction to this exchange is thank god for women like Hi C. Her refreshing maturity restores my faith in humanity.
And the fact that she is both a feminist and a person who suffers from mental illness is a bonus. Because rabid militants like Miss Lex and Shady Doyle can’t shout, “misogynist!” or “ableist!”
Hi C’s opinion is so lucid I have a hard time believing she suffers from a mental illness. Do we attribute this to age? treatment? perhaps a little of both?
And then when I read the OP’s rant, I am reminded how self-centered a disordered person can be. That is partly why I posted this particular exchange. I wanted to show the contrast in attitudes. I wanted to show the difference between a recovered person and a person still in the active throes of a personality disorder. As you can see, the contrast is striking.
The OP is so flushed with self-pity she can’t even think about another person’s well-being. Hi C, on the other hand, has the compassion and awareness to manage a healthy relationship.
The OP is a mess. And I fear for anyone who would be suckered into a relationship with her. Like my borderline ex, she has fooled herself into believing that “true love” will save her soul. Hi C has confirmed that you need to save your soul FIRST before you can find true love.
No doubt, the OP has left broken relationships and broken lovers in her wake. Moving from one victim to another with utter disregard for the damage she has inflicted.
Like Hi C, I am frustrated by the “wrongness” of the OP’s statement. But frankly, not surprised.
My problem is not with mentally disordered people. My problem is with selfish people who pull people into a relationship with them, when they know that they are fucked up. It’s not only selfish. It’s unconscionable.
And then to abandon and demonize someone who once put up with all your bullshit is just inhumane. But that’s how fucked up these people are.
The OP writes under the nom de guerre of meloukhia and SE Smith. A month ago, I had covered her Tigerbeatdown post about the mentally ill and their right to own guns. (Yikes.)
This feeling of entitlement is something that I see a lot of in people with PDs. It is often coupled with a major victim-complex. IOW this is an individual who believes they are entitled to all the things that are available to emotionally healthy people.
Sorry, life isn’t fair. I know we like to make every one feel included. But certain rights should not extend to people who have abusive tendencies and people who are emotionally unstable. That includes owning a gun and being in a relationship. That’s because in both cases, undue harm can be inflicted upon another innocent human being. Only a person who is severely screwed up would have a hard time understanding that.
I remember lying in bed with my borderline ex. I was telling her how I needed to take things slow because my last relationship really screwed me up. And she actually accused me of being “too responsible”. In hindsight, this should have been a warning sign that she had little concern for the well-being of others.
I think that responsibility was too much for her to handle. She doesn’t know how to take things slow. It was always about her needs. This is a woman who rushed into marriage months after our break up, even though she knows she is majorly screwed up. A woman who told me I should walk away because she would only hurt me again and again. And now she has dragged another family into her insanity. She just doesn’t care who she hurts.
Of course, my ex and her enablers/proxies would respond by saying that I’m the crazy one who can’t respect boundaries.
She’s the one with the panic attacks. The one who cut her wrists and struggled with an eating disorder. She’s the one who flipped out on me but I’m the crazy one. She cheated on me twice and I’m the one who can’t respect boundaries?
Because how dare I speak about her mental illness and abusive tendencies. But she doesn’t see herself as abusive. Being passive-aggressive, cheating, cutting someone out of your life isn’t abuse according to her. Not high enough on the hierarchy of abuse.
But hey, she moved to another city and changed her hair color so everything is cool. Who needs therapy when you can just run away from your problems? Why deal with reality when you can just block people out after you hurt them?
What fucked up people don’t get is that messing with people’s minds and hearts is ABUSE.
Even if you don’t do it intentionally, it’s still abuse. If you have a history of unstable relationships there’s a pretty good chance that you are responsible for that instability. If you can’t help but feel suffocated by intimacy, if it causes you to run far far away. That’s a sign that something is up with you.
Abandoning lovers is abusive. If you find yourself going from idealization to devaluation in relationships that is a form of emotional abuse. That push and pull game will mess someone up.
You are traumatizing someone who doesn’t deserve to be. Betrayal, turning on someone, being inexplicably hostile towards someone you once loved is a total mind fuck. And you can not continue to do this with good conscience.
Yes, we all deserve to be loved. But some of us need to fix what’s broken before you invite people into your house. Othwerwise, if a wood beam falls on your invited guest… YOU are responsible. If you know something is broken and you’re still inviting people into your house that makes you an asshole. So don’t go crying when people say bad things about you.
If they are functional enough to act normal, then they are functional enough to get help. If they don’t, they don’t deserve to be loved.
So if they know they’re screwed up, why would they continue to get into relationships? Because their fear of abandonment is proceeded by a fear of being alone. But this is not love. This is a damaged person filling the void with anyone who is willing. They are predators looking for a co-dependent mate who will accept the abuse they dole out.
So how does one know if they’re too fucked up to be in a relationship? Well, being diagnosed with a serious PD (BPD, NPD, HPD, severe depression, bi-polar, alcoholism) is part of it. But even that is not necessarily a no-go. If you have control over your disease, then you should be able to handle a relationship. But that means years and years of therapy/treatment.
Hi C has shown that having a disorder does not necessarily dictate your attitudes. A healthy attitude of respect and consideration is key. Maturity is everything. Many people think being in a relationship, getting married, having kids makes you mature. This is actually the most immature thought you can have.
If you are emotionally unstable than that can mean serious emotional abuse, without you being aware of it.
If this blog fills you with uncontrollable rage, that’s a pretty good sign you do not have your emotions under control.
If you have a history of pushing away partners, sabotaging relationships, and running away from relationships, then you are not ready.
Sadly, the people who are most fucked up are the least likely to assess themselves with any degree of honesty. These are disordered people in denial. And they are the worst in the bunch. If you have co-dependency traits, these are the people you want to stay away from. Let this blog be your guide.
A disordered person who is unable to be honest with themselves will not be honest with you. Don’t expect any verbal warnings. These are people who have spent their whole lives putting on an act.
If you knew what they were capable of, you would probably run from the get-go. But they will test you to see how much bullshit you will put up with. They will try to build up your tolerance to their abusive behavior.
But when they see you are fed up or they can no longer put on the act, they will emotionally and physically shut you out. They won’t give you the chance to reject them. Don’t expect to stay friends, because emotional distance is the only way they can find relief.
As a society we have failed to properly acknowledge and address mental illness and the damaging effects of trauma. And then we wonder why Jared Lee Loughner is so fucked up. We wonder why there are so many homeless people on the streets. Thinking if we just put a dollar in their cup all will be well. Are we that stupid? Or is this collective denial?
We just don’t like to think about things like child abuse or rape, until it effects us in a traumatic way. And then it’s too late. We blame the media. We blame the lack of family values. But if we were to trace all of society’s problems back to its origins, I am willing to bet a lot of it began with mental illness and childhood trauma.
So called activists have dedicated their whole lives to playing the victim but are unwilling to also admit their victimization may have affected them in a negative way. They want the benefits of playing the victim without the scrutiny. And then we wonder why the cycle is never-ending.
So what’s the solution? Well, we can’t count on the mentally ill to fix the problem. Not everyone is as self-aware as Hi C. We can’t even count on their families, because they are too busy covering up their tracks.
For co-dependent types like myself, it means breaking old patterns. It means going out of my way to stay away from people who are fucked up. I have had to accept that not taking in wounded animals does not make you a bad person. It means you respect yourself enough to keep your life free of drama.
The reason why many of these fucked up people remain untreated is because we enable them to go untreated. As co-dependents we are sending them the message that we will love you despite the fact that you are fucked up.
You think you are being gracious and generous, but you are actually keeping this person from getting better. And causing harm to yourself. Why should they get better? When their disease brings them so much attention and sympathy?
Sympathy and compassion is NOT looking the other way or NOT talking about mental illness. Sympathy and compassion is calling people out on their dysfunction and demanding they get help.
Telling people they’re ok when they have a pattern of dysfunctional behavior is NOT helping them. When you tell a fucked up person that they are just fine, you are basically condemning that person (and those around them) to a life of misery.
A fucked up person surrounds themselves with other fucked up people. That’s one way of identifying them. Staying in denial is an elaborate act that requires a dedicated team of co-dependents,irresponsible family members and enablers.
If you refuse to play their game, you will be shut out of their life. But, in time, you will realize they did you a favor. Had they kept you in their inner circle, you would be as fucked up as they are. Crazy people have a way of making you crazy.
Rid yourself of these people and your life will be so much easier. But this is easier said than done. If you’ve invited such a person into your life, chances are you have a history of doing so. This requires introspection on your part.
Do yourself a favor and avoid relationships until you have corrected your own tendencies. Otherwise you will end up in the same dysfunctional relationship. Good luck and good health.
When someone is in this much pain, they inevitably pass that pain onto you.
They will make you suffer for all the suffering they’ve endured over a lifetime.
Until they receive treatment, don’t expect them to be able to control their behavior. Don’t expect them to change.
The worst thing about the OP is she’s spreading her disease on the internet. The values and opinions warped by mental illness passed onto young and impressionable minds.
[...] Should fucked up people be in a relationship? [...]
[...] Every time you get involved with someone, you are harming yet another human being. You are perpetuating the cycle of abuse. You know you are not healthy enough for a relationship and yet you allow it to get serious. That’s what makes you irresponsible. Don’t get involved until you get better. No warning is necessary if you don’t get involved. The truth is you want them to ignore your warnings. [...]